Modified Lenco vs TW Raven


Hello,
I have a TW Acustic Raven for a few years now. I made different upgrades along the last 3 years : new battery PSU and 3 motors in a round shape. I was thinking about the last upgrade (for me) : the BN platter and new bearing when I heard for the first time to modified Lenco by TJN. I read most of what there is to read for a non DIY, and there is a lot...
Before deciding if a make the jump I'd like to know if some in the community have made the same decision : I mean going from a top belt TT to a top idler wheel. I think of the ref models from Jean Nantais and tell me if they are happy now.
Thank you for helping
Barba
barbapapa

Showing 5 responses by dorkwad

I had a Maplenoll Ariadne air bearing tt/arm that sounded just plain beautiful but had potential to have an accident involving the cantilever if any of the air supply's many parts failed or disconnected. After selling it, I had many different tt's--VPI Scout, Classic, Avid Diva II with Origin Live Silver II arm. Each of those was better than the prior, but the 'Noll was still quite a bit better sounding. I have a fairly pimped out Lenco with the 10-layer 100 lb. mdf/birch plywood plinth, Mirko's stainless steel bearing, S. Lucchetti's idler wheel, lead tape on the idler arm to damp resonances, JTN's string/weight mod to replace the idler spring, the Lenco chassis screwed directly to the plinth, TTW's 2.2 SS/carbon fiber weight, 2" Audio Points under the plinth, and of course, cleaned and lubed with the speeds set spot on. This sits on a Sistrum rack, which in itself, is a major sound improvement to all equipment sitting on it. I am currently using the same OL Silver II arm with Pete Riggle's VTAF sleeve. The sound is VERY dynamic and can be quite beautiful--the cartridge is Soundsmith's level 2 rebuilt Shelter 501 Mk II--better than the original. I believe if I get the straight line tracking air bearing Trans-Fi Terminator with all its upgrades to replace the OL, the sound would be really quite incredible--everything the 'Noll was and more--jump factor, potent bass, and that wonderfully beautiful sound the straight line tracking arm like the 'Nolls had--I believe the Trans-Fi would be quite a bit better sounding than the 'Nolls and would have virtually zero chance of snapping a cantilever due to lack of air to the arm because of its lack of need for a high pressure air pump to move the arm. In other words, for about $2500 for the Lenco, the Trans-Fi arm, all the upgraded parts, and quite a bit of work by me, I'll have very close to the best there is with very good longevity. I can't picture any belt drive with pivoting arm sounding as good. Plus, you can say you built some of your tt. How cool is that? I had no mechanical knowledge prior to doing this, but I do have some woodworking skills. It came out massive (24" X 20" X 7" H) and quite beautiful--maple veneered and trimmed out on the top and bottom of all sides. Sorry, I have zero experience with the TW Raven to compare to the SuperLenco. However, I had all the tweaks that TTW out of Canada makes on both the Scout and the Classic (over $1100 worth) and the 'Noll still sounded better. The Lenco with Trans-Fi will be awesome.

Please excuse the length of this post.
Barbapapa,
I have a very much tricked out Lenco 78 and told you all the improvements to it already on the lengthy post. I just received the Synergistics Research PHT little metal gizmo that attches to the cartridge with a small amount of a blu-tac substance so it sits somewhere on the top of the cartridge. This thing is VERY SMALL as in the top couple mm of a push button pen's button. It has a concave top. I bought it on A'Gon a week ago. They send you 2 separate PHT's that are totally different sounding but equally brilliant. They will make any analog set-up sound significantly better. Once a PHT is attached to the top of the cartridge, you can switch one for the other and the swap takes about 1 minute--it's like 2 top flight cartridges with different awesome qualities. With my above mentioned set-up the Blue Heaven version adds air, more detail, clearer, more impactful bass, and lets you use a less expensive set-up and still get the sound quality of a $3000-4000 cartridge with each and swaps out in seconds. I'm sold--it is now better in my set-up than my previous Maplenoll Ariadne that took me almost 1 year to get it running it's best. I haven't listened to the Purple Haze version yet. Could be even better in my system says Alfred Kainz--the PH version

Bob
Sorry for the late response to your questions B & G--I've been out of town.

Barbapappa--The 78 was an all automatic unit when purchased from the dude in Peru, if you use it as is. I didn't want the arm as it is not very nice and I already owned a much superior Origin Live Silver II arm for years. I'm not saying the OL is the current greatest arm at it's price on the planet, but it's superior by some distance to the Lenco arm. I had to figure out what had to go on the 78 in regards to all the automation on the arm without messing with the on-off button functions and drive mechanisms of the turntable itself. There is that part in dealing with the auto portions of the tonearm that you don't have to deal with on the 75--otherwise, they are equal in the amount of work needed to restore them to Jean Nantais' recommendations. They are also slightly different from my perspective--no PTP used in what/where you have to carve out under the platter in the 10-layered 100 lb. plinth (not more work either way, just different in location. So a 75, without the PTP, like mine, could not just drop in an identically prepared 78 plinth as a drop-in replacement w/o carving and drilling out different areas in that wood plinth. If you were willing to figure out what had to be drilled/cut out to accommodate the different location of the 78's undersides vs. the 75's, you could make it work eventually. They will sound equally good--they are the same quality in all other ways.

Gilles,
The Simone Lucchetti idler wheel is a beautifully CNC cut high quality aluminum idler wheel with 2 sets of different rubber tires with 2 pairs of each included. One pair of the rubber tires has a thinner profile and the rubber is slightly more dense--the rubber on the other pair is fatter and slightly more cushy (slightly is the key word here). I really haven't done a lot of AB comparisons yet as I just bought back my VMPS RM40 speakers I sold about 9 months ago. They are my idea of affordable perfection and just replaced a very good speaker in my system--one that others may even like better if they have different preferences--no contest to me, however. Too much info, but I didn't AB the wheel the Lenco comes with yet to the SL wheel. On looks alone, the SL wheel is beautiful with nothing less than perfection it how it spins without ANY even slight visable to the eye lack of trueness as it turns. My metal Lenco idler had a very slight out of true point while turning. As to how they work in the act of turning the platter, I'd say no difference I can tell. Sound wise, it's very hard to tell the difference without a fairly lengthy listening session to several cuts just like a reviewer would do. This is because the change to a different wheel is tough when you also have to take out the 4 large brass machine screws that I tighten down to securely bolt that Lenco chassis to the plinth--no bouncy springs involved like a Linn--I cut them all off. Changing the wheel once the chassis is freed by removing all four 1 1/2" long bolts is somewhat time consuming as the replacing of the bolts and getting all 4 of them to start without stripping is not fast and easy--it's very tight tolerances in the hole sizes I cut in the chassis so the holes did not show once the screw was tightened down. Getting back to the 2 types of rubber tires they include with the SL idler, the thicker, softer rubber tires are supposed to suppress the motor vibrations more, the firmer and smaller tires grip better so they are supposed to pull the platter to start more quickly, but have slightly less cushioning effect due to tire size. The tires slip on somewhat easily with the wheel already in place so changing from one to another is maybe a 2 minute job. Getting my chassis off and on, however, with tightening down the bolts, takes about 15 to 20 minutes because of one screw always is difficult to get started past the 10 or so turn and always takes me several minutes to finally get past that point without stripping the threads. That's what makes an A\B difficult. There's no question which wheel appears to be the better one, but again, not sure the Lenco one doesn't work almost as well. Watch for my final results--I'll post it soon. Heck, I'm real curious on the possible sound difference, if any, too. By the way, Simone sells these on Ebay under Lenco turntables occasionally--$75 plus shipping from Italy ($8 to Chicago in the US). This does not include the arm. The only tricky part is learning how to take off the spring ring that holds the idler on--I use a very fine flat blade screwdriver that came with one of my early cartridges I bought once. You carefully weazel the blade under the 2 pointed tips of the spring ring clamp and start to rotate the blade by rocking it back and forth until it finally starts to push the ring up. Then you just work the screwdriver's blade around the entire ring slowly until it is very near coming off. Your attention better then be on keeping the ring from flying off, so cover it with a finger of the hand not holding the screwdriver and ease the ring off. Just for your info.

Hope that helps, although that was probably more info that you required. That's why I'm a Dorkwad.
Gilles,
I forgot to mention that the LS idler wheel is very light although extremely well machined. It's aluminum. Nice bearings inside the hole that slide over the end of the idler arm. And, you're welcome!!
I feel like an idiot. Almost 4 years on my first Lenco project and I'm still learning how to get the speed dead right. Discovered that the motor housing was no parallel to the chassis because of the 6 springs that attach it to the chassis have to be in just the right spot. There are long ones, short ones, and mid size ones. When they are right, and it takes some experimentation, the speed can be set spot on with absolutely zero drift. Never been there until now. Also, I added a nice layer of lead tape (for golf clubs) around the brass weight Jean Nantais supplies with the string weight mod. Makes the wheel pull better with no slip and the Simon Lucchetti idler really runs super smooth that way. Can't wait to add the Trans-Fi Terminator air bearing straight line tracking arm. I think I will get one of those beautiful and tough dust covers the Agon member sells for $275. It will protect the set-up when I'm not around.