Micro Seiki, or TW AC-1

Let us address the myths espoused above -

I have a friend with a Micro Seiki. Wonderful table but it does need tweaking and labor - almost constantly. He has the table down well over 50% of the time as he waits for parts, etc. Finding parts are becoming an issue for him.

Utter rubbish - I know many micro owners from the 1500 up and they have run without issues for over 20 years.

I'm a little leary about heavily investing in a 25 y/o Micro Seiki, though they have a great reliability record, but with the company being defunct, one is left to a mercy of random suppliers, or DIY in case of malfunction

Replacing a motor and drive on a verdier or micro seiki is easier than trying to work through a direct drive motor board packed to the gunnels with obsolete chips.

my issue with them is the metal platter. the TW has a polymer platter that is warmer and faster that metal.

Poppycock - the speed of sound through solids is directly dependent on the Bulk Modulus and Shear Modulus. It is dependent on the stiffness, resistance to compression, and resistance to shearing. Polymers such as Delrin generally are significantly slower than metal.

TW's tried 150 different materials for the belt alone, just to get the sonic signature that he was looking for. you know that back in the '80's when micros were made, that didn't happen!

Thats because the Japanese did their homework and got it right first time. Do you realise the big micro's are thread drive, they dont use stretchy rubber bands like the Raven. They are far more speed stable. There is at least one member on this forum who dumped the top Raven Black Knight for a Micro.

Probably the biggest myth of all - "because I own it it must be good". This is the most common assumption on the forum.

My observations -
Dont own any of the above so I am not biased. I own a Final Audio Parthenon which I prefer to any of the above.
I have heard most of the decks mentioned, have 2 friends with SME 20's and one with Raven/Raven arm. Also have 2 friends with Technics SP10mk3's, 2 with L07D's.
The top 2 are as Syntax stated are the Platine Verdier ( when used with the ball insert option to ground the platter ) and the Micro Seiki 5000 - preferably with the ringy bell platter issue addressed. Either of these, provided they are well maintained and set up properly will stomp the Raven in speed, articulation, noise floor and provide a much more substantial foundation to the music. Both of them are legacy products that will last a lifetime and are easy to maintain.

Maril55 -
The verdier platine comes with an option to use a ball and thrust plate. Essentially this means the platter is grounded, and provides an energy path to ground for unwanted energy or resonance. In this mode the magnetic repulsion is still employed, but it means the tt has a high mass platter, but the grounded bearing only sees a fraction of that weight. This is a very elegant solution and is used in the Continuum. I prefer this mode, the grounding tightens and focus' the sound, increases resolution and articulation if applied properly. The weak point of the Verdier is probably the motor, and there are aftermarket mods available. The battery supply version is gutless.
In my own Final Audio the motor drive system uses oscillator preamplifiers that regenerate the power supply and provide precise sine and cosine waves to the 80wpc power amp that drives the ac motor & 20kg platter.
Micro ringy platter - if you look at the cross section of the Micro Seiki platter it looks like an upside down plate with a lip. ( upside down U ). This rings. The ringing is ameliorated by using a heavy copper mat - the combination of the 2 metals, gunmetal and copper, acts as bimetallic dampening. There are probably other alternatives to getting rid of the platter resonances - eg use of heavy polymer mats such as delrin or lexan for example.
The Micro 5000 is significantly better than the 1500/2000/3000 models and comparisons should not be used. I have never seen a failure in the Micro power supplies so cant comment on what goes wrong if anything.

Dear poppycock, the two tables in question are the TW AC1 and the Micro Seiki RX5000. You own the TW AC3 and the RX 1500. There are significant differences between the RX1500 and the RX5000. With regard to the comments above, it would be helpful if you did your homework before responding. Please reread the post and do some google searching, you might learn something.

Thanks Dev for the informed comments. They tally with what I've heard in terms of the superior speed, articulation, noise floor of the Micro 5000 v the Raven AC1.

Solong your experiences with the Raven are flabbergasting. My Final Audio Parthenon, built in the 70's, using an AC motor/20kg platter, has infinite control of speed at both 33 & 45, and the amount of torque applied to the motor is fully adjustable to optimise speed stability and minimise motor vibration.
The real killer though is that I have a Thorens TD126mk2 that I use for 78's also built in the 70's - this has a wein bridge oscillator speed control & rubber belt as standard and it can hold speed accurately, even when putting the 1.8kg record stabiliser from the Final Audio on there was no speed adjustment required and the speed holds.
It just makes you wonder whether the advent of digital controllers in modern motor technology is simply not good enough for audio.