HK Fan, wow if an end user posted this you would have no problem would you.
The fact that we are reporting that what the gear is doing and asking a valid question about burn in is that an advertisement as well?
We are not doing this with or without Walters blessing, if Walter has an issue than we will be happy to take down the post.
Dep14, where do we say in any of these posts that the Krell is superior or inferior to anything? The amps are sounding truly magical, after the electronics are burned in we will do a true head to head vs the T+A gear which is way more expensive.
The reality is we know how our Persona 9H sound with $50k worth of T+A electronics, which are rated in the uber echelon of audio gear, and right now with a bit of playing time the speakers are sounding quite fantastic, with $18k worth of Krell electronics and that is including the built in dac vs the $17-35k digital front ends we normally play with the $50k T+A stack, don’t you think that is a good indicator of how good or not good this Krell gear is?
We are happy to point out ways ours are different, in the case of Pass you may not have a fan, the Krell amplifiers fans you just don’t hear at all, the Krell amplifers have an intelligent bias scheme which gives you class A with less heat the Pass labs do not, the Krell amplifiers are less expensive the Pass 350.8 is $14,500 for 350 watts class A/B the Krell 300xd is $10,500 for 300 watts Class A the Pass labs amplifier is 125 lbs the Krell 90 lbs.
The honest fact that we don’t sell Pass makes a true side by side comparison impossible that is for people on the boards to do we would welcome a side by side comparison. Pass Labs amplifiers are very good we have had people check out the T+A gear vs the Pass Labs gear and these people have picked T+A over Pass Labs and that included a $12,500 Pass Labs integrated vs a $11,500 T+A 2500R integrated.
The fact that Pass Labs are much larger, way heavier, and their Class A amplifiers are rated by users to generate heat like a furnace do not speak to practicallity so we are not too interested in using an amplifier which has those characteristics.
As per sound quality Pass is known for being a warm sounding amplifier so is the new Krell. We have heard Pass Labs at clients homes and at shows and they are very good, there are certain qualities in the sound of these new Krell products that does seem to be unique to Krell, this glowing quality in the midrange and a very tube like sound, seems to be a hallmark of the XD circuit, the amplifers seem to be very quick as well.
DP we sell as you pointed out many excellent amplifiers right now we can compare the Krell to Parasound Halo amplifiers, T+A amplifiers, Conrad Johnson, Electrcompaniet, Anthem STR amplifier, Cary Audio, Manly Labs amplifiers and we have a BAT VK 255se are all possible comparisons as well as the Naim gear.
The point is when you have been doing this professionally for 30 years you tend to be able to judge a product fairly quickly sometimes you have to really play with a product for a while and sometimes you don’t.
The fact that we are really super excited by the Krell amplifiers is testement to how good they really are.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor new Krell dealers |
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Oddiiofyl, if you do your Krell homework, Dan D’agistino wasn’t responsible for designing Krell’s products for years. Dave Goodman has been the chief engineer for the last 23 years and is in full charge of all of Krell’s new products.
Krell is comming back strong they are at shows, getting rave reviews, and people are talking about the brand again.
The issue they had was a hostile take over from Venture Capitalist firm a few years back which afffected the brand and then was the transition to these new radically different Ibias amplifier and new styling and to top it off pushing out Dan and Rhondi.
That was a lot of turmoil. Now Krell is owned by Rhondi Dagastino and their new XD series of products are fantastic sounding, reliablity is up and Krell is introducing exciting products again.
The new K300i 150 watts class A power, built in Ess Sabre pro, Roon endpoint MQA buillt like a tank 52lbs, Apt X Blu Tooth, HDMI in and outputs, and it sounds fantastic $8k not cheap but not out of reach either.
Ayre’s Charlie Hansen is dead yet Ayre soldigers on with new products, Mark Levinson is back as well. We should be applauding that a venderable and well loved American brand with the legacy of Krell is finally back on stable ground and doing better and better.
Yes Dep it is nice that so far the gear is sounding really fantastic.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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So if formal reviewers said the same thing then you would have no problem with that correct? If you follow our threads we called attention to a Micromega M100 an intergrated amp with dac and streamer that we thought was one of the best sounding products at its price range and boom guess what other people who purchased these units not from us by the way, reported the same thing, that the unit sounded and performed superbly and are in love with the sound that was before any published review, how did we know the Micromega was good becuase we were able to compare it to an NAD M32, a Naim Uniti Star, an Anthem STR, a Mytek amp and dac combo and a Nuprime amp and dac combo. HK what you fail to understand is that there are not a lot of dealers who continue to bring in new lines vs the existing lines they have carried for years we pursue new and exciting products all the time providing they make sense based on their perceived price and performance. "Initially, there’s no comparison between the two current models – the jump in resolution and musicality is massive. It’s like they are channeling the sound that made Krell famous, while incorporating the changes in technology that have come to be over the last 35 years." "For some time, Krell amplification had taken on a bit of a forward, hyperdetailed sound. The new XD amplifiers have returned to more of that slight bit of warmth and tonal saturation, combined with a level of bass slam that made Krell famous. I’ll stick my neck out here and guess that this is a sound that more true music lovers might enjoy, and I’d put the tonality of the current XD amplifier more in the same ballpark as the other solid-state, Class-A amplifiers I truly love: vintage Krell, vintage Levinson, Pass, and Luxman. More of that kind of sound." "The folks at Krell are calling this “The New Sound of Krell,” but I submit that they’ve just returned to what made them great in the first place, bringing it up to date with the best advances in audio technology that have come our way in the last few decades. I’d say they’ve found their way back home. " All the above from Tone audio. http://www.tonepublications.com/whats-new-homepage/krells-new-ibias-duo-175xd/By your arguement the only way anyone can find out about new products is from end users posting on line which is fine but in reality what do you learn, you learn that amp x was better then amp y in this guys system, in our store we have many different products to choose from if that doesn’t put into perspective what does? The best reviews are ones when the poster tested a whole bunch of products in the same way on the same system. The fact that in this market you have very few dealers who have a selection in the New York area you have several major dealers who all sell Mcintosh, and Focal as some of their core products, this is not an indictment against them, but why do many dealers sell Mcintosh is it because their gear is taking audio in new directions or is it because Mcintosh is an easy comfortable brand that laypeople like the looks of as well as the storied history of the brand? If you have an issue with us, don’t read our posts. There are many people who have found our reviews and findings postive, if you think the entire audiogon community is rushing to us to purchase products from us you are sorely mistaken. The point is that the new Krell products are really fantastic and deserve to be promoted, purchased and enjoyed not because of us or because of a review, because they are really, really good sounding. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Timlub everything you say is fairly accurate. The reality of our first post was less of a promotional piece but to actually gain some persepective from end users who purchased the new XD amplifiers.
We did hear from a few owners who had gotten the XD upgrade and was pleased with the overall sound quality. As a dealer we usually get samples to play with without having to commit to the line in the case of Krell they could not honor that request, as they had no samples that were not in the field at reviewers.
So we were pretty sure we were going to get the line, but not 100% more like a 70-90% certainty we were going to try the products because of the fantastic demo at the Capitol Audio Fest and as stated above and a desire to have another line of electronics that would be less expensive then the T+A gear.
The post then became a spirl of people like HK and Oddifyl.
The fact is we all need to be less sensitive about what constitutes "promotion." One person's promotion is anyother person's discovery.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
Cleeds and Jafant, thank you. Cleeds you have an excellent grasp of the issues at hand.
The fact that a dealer is just an end user who buys their products at wholesale, the issue or promotion vs non promotion should be left to the users and readers of these forums to make up their own minds and if the fact that we write a post praising or recomending another prouduct it is up to the individual to determine for themselves if we are believing this honestly or just promoting our brand.
The fact that most dealers believe in the quality of their products or they wouldn’t be selling them in the first place, however there are dealers that represent products that they sell because they believe the brand is easy to sell or recommend, we would site B&W and Mcintosh as good examples of this, wether or not a B&W 800 Diamond is better than a Wilson or a Rockport is a moot point, is the dealer recommending the brand because it is the best in the price range or the best in terms of name recognition?
One can also question the veracity of some of these posts made by end users who may be affiliated with, or friends with a particular dealer or manufactuer, unless they state friends of company X or cousin of or whatever you might also question their motives as well, there are also a lot of dealers and reps and others who don’t announce that they are so, we didn’t do that either until we were chastisted that is was wrong and now all of our posts state Audio Doctor dealer.
If you want to be totally paranoid you can also view Stereophile, Absolute Sound the Audiophilic, and many of the on line reviews and reviewers also have hidden agendas.
The fact that we have many fans who read our posts and we get calls about that many people find our posts beneficial and balanced.
For those that say we haven’t tested every other amp vs the Krell that is a fact, the other fact is our reference gear the T+A products out of Germany are considered to be among the best of the best brands such as Gryphon and D’agastino makes a very well established benchmark.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ |
We will keep on burning in the electronics and will report back after they have been on a week or so.The performance even out of the box is quite good. The illusion II dac board is actually quite good howerver it still sounds like a starter dac it is missing some of the weight and depth of the better dacs, but again for $1k it is a good hold out for someone who is going to eventually be upgrading to a better dac.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers
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Frank you should be in for a treat the new XD version of the amplifiers has an organic quality that is very unlike most solid state amplifiers the sound just flows, the best example of this is that strings and piano keys have a glowing roundness that just sounds beautiful.
All the amplifers seem to have a better rhythemic pace than past Krell amplifers. Past Krell amps that we had included the KSA 250s and the 450MCX.s.
The new XD versions are just much more musically involving than the older Krell products which were clean with good bass and dynamics but sounded much more artificial.
Krell Fan truer words could not be said our reference stack of electronics and digital is upwards of $70k and we are now breaking in a Krell 300XD amplifier and an Illusion 2 preamp with dac board and the sound isn't quite as good as the big stuff, but I am willing to bet if we blindfolded someone they would not think the uber expensive stuff is worth nearly 5 times the cost.
The illusion 2 is very surprising the digital board is clearly out of date without ethernet connectivity no DSD, and only 192k sampling rate however with that being said the sound of the board is really really good and for a $1k is a great value for a very listenable digital experience.
It is nice to see such a venerated American company is on its way back.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor Krell dealers |
Denon1 yes they use fans, never heard them come on at all totally silent. We are running the 300XD and the Illusion 2 with dac option with the Persona 9H and the sound is really exceptional: big soundstage, good midbass punch and dynamics, the bass is quite good not as uber slammy as the reference gear, the midrange and top end of this gear is stunning rich, organic, and flowing, also there is not a much front to back image float vs the uber rig however, we are litterally using a $1k digital board which is the cheapest digital source in the room vs our $8k $17k $22k and $35k dacs we use with the uber gear. All in all quite an accomplishment for the money the new Krell gear is really exceptional the looks also kind of grow on you. Not as great looking as the T+A gear but still kind of cool and business like. https://www.facebook.com/audiodoctor1/photos/rpp.122499304489958/2414413985298467/?type=3&theate...Still love the T+A gear even more but again the value for the dollar with the new Krell gear is off the charts. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Jafant 24/7 about 6 days so far
How do u like the showroom?
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Jafant thank you and Technk thank you will be posting some more pics.
Oddiofyl, yes at this stage we are, do you honestly thiink we would be promoting a product that we didn't own or have not directly tested?
We are praising the new Krell products because they are really, really, good and are very competitive with more expensive products.
There never was a probationary period, we had to purchase three pieces of gear without hearing it hence our first post seeking advice from owners. A couple of people with the Krell XD series wrote back and loved the new gear so we went ahead with it.
After having listned to the 300XD the Illusion 2 preamp with dac board and the K300i we can report this is a very musical line of solid state gear.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers |
Thank you Cleeds a voice of reason. |
Oddiofyl first of all people on this forum can purchase from whomever they wish, which includes both us and other Krell dealers. Most of the dealers who sell Krell would welcome any assistance in promoting the line, they are coming back from a dark point in their recent history it is with the new XD series and the K300i that Krell is restoring the luster to this once proud brand. Also many people would want to hear the products, which means that those local people might just check out Krell because of us, at their local dealer, works both ways doesn’t it? As per the website Krell will be launching a new website which is why we are not currently listed do you honestly think we would be talking about a product we haven’t heard nor display with this degree of certainty? And per websites this is what many people find when searching for us www.audiodoctor.comthis is our new website which should be launching in Feb it is still in beta and not finished yet. Product pages are missing, etc. Go to about us and look under products to see for yourself what we represent, Krell included. www.audiodoctor.com/wp and lastly Walter liked our testamonial about the new K300i he posted it on twitter https://myemail.constantcontact.com/First-Partner-impression-of-the-brand-new-Krell-K-300i-Integrate...I guess if we weren’t an authorized Krell dealer the COO wouldn’t be sending out a twitter feed which ends with Audio Doctor. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Krell Dealers |
Oddiofyl we never trashed Krell, if you actually read any of our posts you would see that only after hearing Krell at the Capitol Audio Fest and only with the recent XD mods did we have any interest in Krell at all. The setup of Krell 300 XD two at $10,500 each and a $7k Illusion preamp were the cheapest electronics driving a $110k worth of loudspeakers at this entire show and the Krell/Wlilson/Vpi room sounded the best of all of them, hence our interest in Krell. Also there are tons of people who did not love the new Krell products until recently, when they heard the XD mods that Dave Goodman came up with when we was designing the K300i integrated. Look at the Tone audio review comparing new XD amplifer vs an older non XD amplfier http://www.tonepublications.com/whats-new-homepage/krells-new-ibias-duo-175xd/"
The folks at Krell are calling this “The New Sound of Krell,” but I submit that they’ve just returned to what made them great in the first place, bringing it up to date with the best advances in audio technology that have come our way in the last few decades. I’d say they’ve found their way back home. " As per flavor of the month, we are allways checking out new gear, we have a Coda 8 series on order as well, recent additions Lumin T2, and Critical Mass products. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers |
Thanks Joe, one of the reasons we write on these forums is to give people good advice, if we can or to draw attention to some new and exciting products.
The 300XD and the Illusion 2 with dac board have been burning in for over a week know and they sound fantastic.
For $18k you get a powerfull 300 watt monster amplifier and a very good preamp with a very listenable dac board. We have been listening exclusively through the built in dac later on the weekend we will play the much more expensive digital front end through the Krell to get a better idea of the electronics true capabilities.
One of the nice things is that the digital board gives people a starter way of getting a system up and runnning just add a streamer and you got tunes.
The electronics have a very organic quality that remind us a lot of tube gear, super smooth, big soundstage, these electronics sound way more expensive then what they are priced at.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers
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thezaks your impression from the one person fly in the face of other posters who have been very impressed by the increase in musicality with the XD mods. If you reference the Tone review Jeff Dourgay was very cognizant of how much better and different the XD version of the same amplifier was. http://www.tonepublications.com/whats-new-homepage/krells-new-ibias-duo-175xd/We have never heard the older non XD versions however, the sound that we are experiencing in our shop with XD series products does show a very tube like presentation which we never heard out of the older Krell products. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Pokey we just got in the Lumin T2 and are breaking that in with the K300i and yes it does show what a far superior dac/streamer can do.
The new Lumin T2 is really unbelievable one of the best sounding dac/streamers for under $5k it does sound a bit like what you get out of the $14k Lumin X1.
Will say that the built in dac board for $1k should be considered as being way better than what you would get out of normal outboard $1k dac.
The increase in tonal color and image density are very noticable.
We will have a very busy break in period lately just got the NAD M10, Rega Brio R, Peachtree Deco 125 sky all of these pieces are in our
"Lab" Room this is the room with 54 components from starter to reference and nine pairs of floorstanders and Five pairs of bookshelf speakers.
We have not yet played any of our higher end dac's yet with the Illusion 2 and the 300XD the combo even with the $1k built in dac board sounds so good, but alas it will be worth trying the Aqua Hifi Lascala with the Krell as well as the T+A PDP 3000.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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twoleftears how would we do that? We have over 60 lines on display |
Micheal, we think the reason is that people kind of written off the brand based on some of the negative issues involving the hostile take over and rousting of Dan and Rhondi in the recent past, then then there was the radical new look and new Ibias designs, and now finally with the tweeked up XD version these productsare really sounding fantastic with critics and listeners alike confirming that the products are sounding much more involving that the previous versions. Now with Walter and Rhondi is the company comming back to prominance and regaining stability with some very exciting new products on the drawing board.
Played with your racks when I worked at SBS very innovative products you were making at the time.
Thank you ZZ, Dznutz and everyone who has responded favoribly the only way any of us learn about new brands and how they perform and compare are threads like this.
As per the new Krell gear the K300i is sounding fantastic hooked up the Lumin T2, and the sound of course is way better as that is a $4,500.00 streamer but the sound of the amp is still showing through and that is a very good and highly competitive integrated amp for $7k.
Next week will be the full evalaution of the Illusion 2 with the 300XD with a better dac then the Illusion 2’s built in one.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers
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Mental everyone has a different style, sorry if ours seems long winded we go into detail other than, gee new Krell sounds good, company back go check it out! If I was a consumer and hey we are consumers as well, considering we don't get the gear for free and have to buy it, I would want to know more such as what have you compared it too, how is the sound different, how is the company different etc. As per new Krell vs old read the tone review, these new Krell products sound very different than the old, less stream roller bass, more midrange richness more tonal color accross the board, less heat and smaller more managable sized products even the soundstage is wider they sound more like Pass without the high heat. Read Jeff Dorgays comments on comparing Krell XD vs non XD and even vs classic Krell models: http://www.tonepublications.com/whats-new-homepage/krells-new-ibias-duo-175xd/
Fortunately, Schofield made my job easy. He sent me an old version along with the new amp. While it’s great to rely on “sonic memory,” nothing gets the job done like having them both side by side to compare. So using the new D-01 DAC/streamer from Esoteric ($20,000) in for review that I’ve become very familiar with, Nagra’ s Classic preamplifier ($17,000) and a pair of GamuT Zodiac speakers ($149,000/pair), all cabled up with Cardas Clear cable, the comparison was a relatively easy task.
Initially, there’s no comparison between the two current models – the jump in resolution and musicality is massive. It’s like they are channeling the sound that made Krell famous, while incorporating the changes in technology that have come to be over the last 35 years. The raw emotion that generated so much excitement over this brand in the 80s is back in spades, yet without losing that magic, there is more low level detail, and more refinement. This is a tough combination to master, yet Krell has. It’s like taking a car with a great paint job, wet sanding it with 2500 grit sandpaper and then buffing to a higher luster than you thought possible – yet there you are. We’ll have a full review of the Duo 175XD before the end of this year, but for now, consider this more of a comparison between new and old versions to let you know what’s new. The folks at Krell are calling this “The New Sound of Krell,” but I submit that they’ve just returned to what made them great in the first place, bringing it up to date with the best advances in audio technology that have come our way in the last few decades. I’d say they’ve found their way back
Mental without knowing your current system there is no way of us knowing if the new Krell gear would work for you but after owning Krell 450 MCX, a Krell KRC HR, and a KSA 250 we know what classic Krell gear sounds like the new stuff is way better.
Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers
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Jeff sometimes change is unsettling. Over the years we have sold many Krell amplifiers, the new XD gear are the most musical Krell amplifiers ever built.
The reality is that Dan leaving Krell had really very little to do in terms of their engineering, for the last 20 years Dave Goodman, has been their cheif engineer the XD circuit and Ibias came from him, as well as most of their designs.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers
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