Kharma FE 3.2 - be careful, space crucial


I have 2 systems in my house - one vastly more expensive than the other, but the cheaper one is infinitely more satisfying, due to one simple reason: I chose the wrong speakers for the space they occupy. The speakers, the much vaunted Kharma 3.2 FEs are beautiful, coherent speakers, but cannot do justice to a room that is 23' X 17' X 15ft ceilings. Even with 8" of added height through Timbernation blocks. They just dont fill the space and strain to do so. They are better with added height, but dont fill the room with the visceral, alive, palpable sound and "being there" presence of the cheaper sytem. It's like sitting in the foyer of Carnegie Hall. The cheaper system is sitting in row 4. But when I look at options, I see that it is not so easy to sell these speakers - there is a mint pair on A'gon that cost $21,000, not selling for 29 days for $8,000. Resale of these expensive speakers is not easy, as I want to try a pair of Line array speakers in this large space, but to do so I would probably have to virtually give these Kharmas away for a song. So the message is simple: Look and ask harder questions than I did before you buy such expensive speakers that are not made for such large spaces. I bought them without listening in my room (obviously) but will not make that mistake again. The problem is how to arrange an audition of line arrays in my room. If anyone in the Northeast has line arrays in a similar space, including dealers, please let me know. Thanks.
Systems: System 1: 17 X 23 X 15 height: EMM CDSD/DCC2, Sota Cosmos IV, EAR 324, Shelter 901, OL Illustrious arm, A-S MP-1, A-S MA 2.2, PAD Dominus s/c, Gabriel Gold Revelation i/c, Kharma FE 3.2, 3 ft from rear wall, on 8" blocks.
System 2: 30 X 13 X 8 height: VPI TNT Jr, JMW 10.5 arm, Sumiko Blackbird, Wright WWP 200, Aesthetix Calypso, 2 X Moscode 401 vertically biamping Mark-Daniel Maximus Monitors, 7 ft from rear wall.
springbok10

Showing 4 responses by shadorne

Do you listen at realistic orchesttral or rock/jazz big band levels - is that the key (many speakers compress and sound dull at higher levels - even fantastic sounding ones may not be designed for realistic levels in a large space)?

You mentioned an issue of furniture blocking the speaker last thread - so I guess I am condused as to what your are really after....why the line array (which can be a tough load for an amp)?
It's not really that surprising that a two way speaker cannot fill a 5,000+ cubic foot space with sound.

Yeah that was kind of my point too. I did not want to quite put it as bluntly as you have done but this is what I suspect may be the problem.

=> the importance is not to get hung up on line arrays...if you bought the Kharma's then you must love their sound (at lower levels in a smaller space perhaps) and I am not sure that a line array is the only solution...without knowing your exact tastes ....a bigger three way Kharma might actually be the best answer (closest to the sound and imaging of what you like ...but an effortless and less strained sound in a big space)!
the soundstage is just too low and small and sounds strained at high volumes.

I don't doubt you are using premium quality amplification in which case either

1) You may need a sub - to fill out the LF.
2) The midrange and tweeter are compressing somewhat at the levels you like (Classical is the toughest form of music for a speaker as it has the most dynamic range - and needs to be cranked to sound loud where as pop/rock can sound loud on mini-pc speakers)

I think point 2 is most likely based on your comment about "strain" - that tweeter is working down to 1.75 Khz - as in most two ways if something is to give then it will be this tweet as it starts to compress (driver excursion increases dramtically as you do lower in frequency). This is a quite common problem with beautiful sounding audiophile two ways...they typically make the tweeters work too hard - so at elevated levels they get strained. You get utterly fantastic sound and great imaging and fantastic dispersion (dome tweeter) from these two way designs but you don't often get great dynamic capability....and guess what => that is why Kharma make the bigger models for customers with large rooms who want that great Kharma sound but find they strain/stress the smaller models!

A properly amplified line array may do it for you, however, so would a good three or four way speaker or a D'appolito design or a pro design with pro drivers. Your speakers are beautiful so I would suggest an aesthetic speaker designed for a dynamic presentation - like big Wilsons, Egglestons or the bigger Kharma designs (which use Appolito which has TWO midrange drivers to get over the driver compression limitation at extremely high levels - no strain!).
Springbook,

I've watched the same 3 speakers reamin unsold on A'gon for a month

In your elite stratosphere this is one of the issues you run into....like the housing market at the high-end it can take well over a year to move a property - sometimes 2 or 3 years.

I do not think it is at all a reflection on the speakers....just the market segment you are in.