Frogman, thanks for the link, I don't even know how to do it.
And he was an old man then. There was another clip on the right of Mel singing with his quartet decades earlier.
At one point his piano player gets slightly ,and I do mean SLIGHTLY , behind and Mel instantly synchs to him , It was so fast I had to watch it 4 times to be sure I was hearing what I saw.
IMO, Torme could constantly improvise without changing the intent , either in lyrics or tune, of the composer in a way I never heard anyone else do.
I fully understand why folks think of him as just another crooner. you have to listen to him as closely as you would a Mozart concerto to grasp just how great he was. |
Tubegroover, no wonder you turned out so well with such a brilliant dad ! |
ONE problem with you line of thought Learsfool.
It is far more important to be a good man than a great artist.
Wagner was NOT used by Nazi's ,in fact they toned down his anti-Semitism .You do NOT grasp the extent that Wagner made them possible in Germany.
Music is God's gift to man but it is not God.
That much is gray, does not make everything relative.
No one would die if Wagner's music vanished into the vapor forever. |
Frogman, just so.
What I meant was Mozart and Mel both make it sound easy and off the cuff , no sturm und drang, just music that is so beautifully crafted it never occurs to you could be any other way.
Every thing I say is a generalization and off the top of my head.
What is an open mind at 20 is an empty mind at 80. |
Wagner's views on Jews were worse than the KKK's views on blacks. He lit the fire for the gas chambers .
I am sure I can blame him for that.
As were the six German Historians who approved my thesis expressing that at the Free University of Berlin. |
You're a great guy Mapman, but I think you studied logic and history under Goldilocks. |
More likely my feeble mind can't get up to the lofty level your thoughts float at.
Happy New Year . |
Sophmoric nonsense.
You simply do not believe that any thing can be so evil that
to embrace any of it is to condone all of it. That there are any absolutes. I do
I originally said Wagner was the sole artist I would go to such lengths with.
Music is your God, it is not mine. |
No one has to read posts of no interest to them. |
You got that right Rok2id, IMO Frogman is the best human being on here .And that's saying a lot. |
I may be nuts, in fact I know I am, but two jazz musicians that have received great acclaim sound unable to keep time
to my ears.
Benny Goodman and Diana Krall. |
Rok2id, I'd wager that more new Classical is being written than jazz.
You hear it less in the USA than Europe though for obvious reasons. |
Orpheus 10, wise words , but the best improvisers have mastered the "rules" first . |
Thanks Mapman,glad I'm not the only Sophie fan. |
I already answered you Map. |
Pray for me, Cassandra Wilson is at the Dakota in Mpls, tonight and I can't get a ticket-SOB ! |
Rok, all joking aside , you need some form of mental/emotional health care. |
When/IF/ I get to heaven I'm going to ask God to spend my
vacation time in the section with this band.
Lester Young on tenor
Clifford Brown on horn
Eric Dolphly on flute
Mingus on double bass
Joe Pass on guitar
Toots T, on harp
Leader- J.S. Bach on B-3 |
Frogman, with the US life-expectancy on a steady downward turn, you'll be lucky to still be breathing at 86.
I read an article lately with a graph showing the age convergence points of the average bodily pesticide load of German and American males.
Lines crossed at 78 for the former and 23 for the later.
FDA allowance for pesticides level on Organic veggies are higher that EU standards for normal status . |
Obviously, but who decides what is good and what is bad?
One mans meat is another's poison as also has been said before. |
OK Frogman, then why not just say whatever floats your boat? |
Frogman, yes I see that now, I should have read it better first time. Senility is a bitch. |
Learsfool, as a Shakespeare buff(I assume) I wish you could have heard what I would call a "double suite "arranged by Vansca and played tonight by the Minnesota of Sibelius's "The Tempest" . Prospero lines were read
by the Guthrie Theatre Director in perfect Oxbridge with Heather Johnson singing the Ariel lines. Absolutely magnificent ! |
I keep my car radio on the local jazz station which is owned by the Minneapolis School Board.
They put high school jazz ensembles on air that are unreal
good players.
Jazz is alive and well in the Twin Cities, you can catch local trios etc which are well worth hearing 7 days a week
and the famous Dakota Club is usually full.
ALL kinds of music do well here, I think the fact that this is the epi-center of the world in Choral music has a LOT to do with that. |
Frogman, on the NPR program "Performance Today" this day there was a stupendous live performance by a student Sax Qt. from the Jacobs School at Indiana University.
They play all genres but today did the Bach Italian Concerto
BWV 971.
All the contrapuntal elements were there, the lines as well
and the barry laid down a ground that I would have thought impossible on a Sax.
They go by "Kenari Qt." and have a download on PT as well as a click to listen on right side, at least for today.
It would be a real treat to hear what you think of them ! |
Frog, you can download it from PT show and/or listen to it
on the second hour bar of listen today , just click on Bach Concerto.Just click on the photo of the QT and they start another piece,these guys are really special.
I know many musicians retire in Bloomington and IU is drawing top students from all over the world. |
Thanks so very much Frogman.
I would have never picked up the tempi issues myself.
I did notice they listened to each other, which I found remarkable for kids.
I thought the baritone was the star, amazing foundation for what was written as a harpsichord cnt.
Re the Bach anything, I heard a nice performance in Dublin
by a tin-whistle trio. |
The reason for buying music by living current performers is that they have to make a living if you wish to see them LIVE.
Without the memory of live performance stored in you brain
an LP or CD of a symphony would just be noise.
I would think the pleasure that is jazz would be greatly
diminished as well.
Music is organic and the musicians and audience are part of the same organism .
Musicians are serious and IMO audiences should be too ,within their limits anyway. |
There are Classical conductors , notably Ivan Fischer, who actually encourage their players to improvise as far as possible in Classical.
His Budapest Festival Orch. is the most beloved musical group in Hungary which ,in that most musical of countries ,is saying a lot . |
Frogman, this might interest you.
I was at the MN Orch. concert tonight, finally got to hear the great Gil Shaham and his Strad in the Korngold Vn. Cnt., a work I like but never heard live.
The orchestra President came out on stage and announced
the Minnesota will be the first American orchestra to play
in Cuba, two concerts in Havana mid-May at the time of the Cuban Grammy equivalent . |
Well, its certainly nice to know that a musician of your stature agrees with me Learsfool.
In the violin sonata realm , the best I ever heard was Joseph Suk , son of the composer and great-grandson of Dvorak who played often in Berlin.
BTW, the Minnesota is sold out for next couple years, cost me $200 for a scalped ticket.Cheap for what I heard. |
Frog, to hear Shaham hold a long line that went 3-4, 4-4, 2-4 was something to hear.I've read his Stad is the best extant, I believe it.
I would put him up with the 2 best IMO other fiddlers I've heard in person. Milstein and Oistrakh. sort of a happy medium between the two !
FWIW, intermission gossip had it the Minnesota agent beat the NY and Chicago to the bunch so I'm sure they will play in Cuba as well!
Speaking of the NY, I heard them in some Berlioz on NPR under Andrew Davis, who seems able to get the best from any band, and they sounded really good. esp. brass. |
Even I , who knows next to nothing about jazz, gathered that
Bradford was not all that from seeing his band a few times on whatever late-night show he was on,
What really got to me was the deadpan expression on his face
when f...ing Kenney G got to play the memorial piece on the show the night Dizzy passed.
Arrogant people never get to the heart of the matter because
you only learn yourself through other people.
And only see God in others faces. |
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Frogman, I've been ruminating on that b.s. solo concept you exponded on. Having never heard it before I'm been trying to come up with the best improvising artist I know of with my limited knowledge of jazz .
I keep coming back to Sonny Stitt who, to my ears, makes these endless runs away from the center of the melody while nevertheless enhanceing same and doing wonders to harmonics at the same time.
Another one is Ron Carter who can keep a steady baroque like beat while at the same time being very melodic , how this can be on one instrument is beyond me.
If I am full of b.s, fell free to say so, I really want to understand a bit more. |
Does anyone else have the Sophie Milman CD "Make Someone Happy" ?
To me, she's the best of all the current "divas" out there, not a great voice but beautiful lyrical phrasing , VERY flowing and for-real passion for music in her soft-voiced manner.
The ensemble work by the Toronto musicians is SUPERB, at times the bassist, one Kieran Overs, sounds like a twin sister singing along.
As joyful a recording as I have ever heard ! |
Learsfool, Cicero, the wisest of the pagans, said "he who does not know what transpired before him remains forever a child" .
The thing that makes you hunger to know the history of something or somebody is love.
They both have ego to spare, I'd wager Wynton loves jazz much more than his brother, who I would guess looks upon it, consciously or unconsciously, as a job. |
Thanks, Frogman. I'm going to trot over to the U of MN's gigantic bookstore and buy a theory text, though that will never tell me how Cater must be able to play the front and back of his string at the same time.
I have done several compare and contrast sessions between Stitt and Parker. Great as Parker was, I prefer Stitt because his sliding in and out of dissonance reminds of how Bach and Brahms maintained the forever forward sound in their music I love so much. |
What you do for a living is petty compared to how you make a life. Study what you love and the hell with everything else. |
The is the first time I ever put a plug in for a speaker in
a music thread, but as this where the music folks are I feel compelled to.
I've been in need of a small, but full range speakers that also can integrate drivers within 6ft for the small condo I've moved to.
Two weeks ago underwood wally put the Gallo Classico CL-3 's on here for $1199 shipped.
They are SUPERB jazz and classical speakers in all aspects .
Been running them 24/7 and they just keep getting better and better, very close to the Gallo 3.5's !
Anyone can PM here for more and just read the synopsis on them in the TAS 2015 which is spot !
And no , I have nothing to do with wally. |
WOW, thanks for all that Frogman.
I've been "dissing" many jazz players in my mind for decades
for being behind the beat ! who knew-LOL
It seems the old saying "anything worth doing is worth doing well" comes into play here as well.
90% of jobs in a mass society really ain't worth doing
but all the ones that are require constant study.
A GOOD nurse, teacher, clergyman has to study every soul that presents to them and is burned out in 15 years .
So, most settle for being fair at best and mail it in another 20 years till retirement and get away with it.
A musician gives to others as well, but its a lot more noticeable if they are mailing it in ?? Or not?
Most I've known say they draw energy from the audience so perhaps they last longer???
I know ,fact certain, a teacher gets sucked dry by his. |
Military bands evoke lots of feelings, very few of them good. |
The Minnesota Orch. could use you Learsfool, only a horn player or two away from former glory.
Nicer place to live as well.
IMO Frog's post was best ever on A'gon and yours added greatly to it |
To state Jazz players are better than Classical ones is just plain stupid.
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Good, then I don't have to explain to you how Learsfool
in a symphonic horn solo is "farther out there" than any jazz player could ever be. |
Yes, but I don't have the energy. |
Orpheus10,
I think you are generally correct about outside influences on musical choices.
But FWIW , I never heard a note of Classical music till I was 30, by chance I heard the great Swedish tenor Jussi Bjorling and was instantly converted by the most beautiful thing I had ever heard and have never looked back.
I was about 18-19 when rock started , everyone I knew went crazy about it, I hated it and thought it vastly inferior
to the big band, American song book music I had grown up on
which it displaced ,never looked back on that either.
I can't be the only one . |
Try Errol Gardiner you couldn't even read music. |
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Learsfool, no not really. I was just repeating what the only
pro musician I know around here, a percussionist, said.
Also, I have heard German musicians from the R.I.A.S orch, which was a hell of a band,say the blending talent you have was the hardest thing to master so I just thought you would be better yet.
At what they are best at, notably Sibelius, the Minnesota is
unbeatable right now. I only wish I could hear them in Havana in May !! |
