Inexpensive MM Cartridge
I don't think you need a $300 cartridge for one of the cheapest old Pioneer belt drive turntable. For $300 you could actually buy a whole new direct drive turntable with better tonearm. If you need just a cartridge for that old Pioneer look for Audio-Technica MM cartridges under $150 |
Chakster, he bought the Nagaoka. be happy for him instead of your usual BS about cartridge choices of what is good and what is not. We’re talking about technical things here than you @mr_m do not understand, probably. I’m sorry for you. You can send your Christmas Card to the OP if you want to celebrate his purchase with him! I’m talking about something that every cartridge designer understand better than you. It’s obvious that MicroLine profile is superior to Elliptical profile, because it’s not only last 3 times longer, but it reads the groove much better and reproduce music with noticeable extensions on both ends (such ass much deeper bass and crystal clear highs). The OP noticed than Nagaoka cartridges are low compliance Moving Permalloy carts! Actually the MP-200 is not bad, it’s better than entry level MP100 with bonded conical tip, or MP110 and MP150 with very low dynamic compliance at 6 cu (100Hz). The MP200 dynamic compliance is 7.2 cu @ 100Hz which is about 12cu @ 10Hz - this is still a low compliance. This may be one of the reason why the MP200 frequency response is very models 20Hz - 35kHz, not to mention its average 0.4 x 0.7 Elliptical profile. And it’s not just about specs in the manual, it’s about cartridge limitations in real life. Higher compliance Audio-Technica with MicroLine stylus tip on Gold Plated Boron cantilever is a better cartridge than low compliance Nagaoka MP with Elliptical profile on Boron cantilever. The AT-ML170 and the AT-ML180 in my opinion are the best MM cartridges ever made, they are not available today, but newer AT cartridges available at very reasonable cost (many people admitted that in this topic). The best MM/MI cartridges are normally high compliance, the tracking abilities of those high-ish compliance carts are simply amazing. |
Chakster. Specs aren't everything. Try listening to the comparisons for once instead of your technical diatribe. I don't ignore specs, but like anything else in this hobby the proof is in the listening. I have had carts you have mentioned specifically the Stanton 881S with Stereohedron profile. My average lifespan for that cartridge tip was about a year to a year and one half with average use. I've had elliptical stylus that have lasted WAY longer than that, and guess what? They sounded much better that the Stantons. I know I have mentioned this many times before, but the Nagaoka bested my beloved Soundsmith Boheme cart which cost me $1200. @mr_m So you're comparing two cartridge on the same tonearm? 1) Nagaoka dynamic compliance is no more than 12 cu converted to 10Hz (you can check dynamic compliance stated at 100Hz here). 2) SoundSmith Boheme available in two versions, high compliance is 28cu, mid is 22cu at 10Hz. The difference in compliance is at least twice as much!
I do compare all my cartridges here and now, not in my memories from 100 years ago, I'm doing it now (all those best MM/MI versus best LOMC) on different turntables with different tonearms. As you admitted cost is not the answer, your cheaper cartridge is better than your more expensive cartridge. This is what I've been posing here for many years with some crazy discoveries. Regarding Stanton 881s I must admit this is "best buy" for those who looking for inexpensive cartridge, and it was Doug Sax's monitoring cartridge, not mine. I trust professionals, but I don't use 881, what I use is CS-100 WOS as the best from Stanton (which is surpassed my Stanton 980). Stereohedron stylus was upgraded with mkII and official life span of this profile is over 1000 hrs, unfortunately elliptical can't do even 50% of it, I'm afraid your information is false. But in general elliptical can be very good too, but you have to change it more often with a new one before it's too late. |
The elliptical have the advantage of succeeding with less than perfect alignment. That is a reason they are good choice for someone without tools and skills. Only if you can detect it, if you have overhang gauge given by tonearm manufacturer your alignment is correct on tonearms fixed to TT by the manufacturer (like on the most cheap turntables). Many of us it seems have had darn good experiences with that Shure M97xe elliptical. Shure's also has the advantage of the brush, damped for warps and/or springy floors, and to pick up dust prior to the stylus. The brush invented by Stanton as far as I know. The advanced stylus shapes need very careful alignment not only to perform to their increased potential, to avoid groove damage if improperly aligned. If a person can alight one cartridge then he can align another. If he can't align any cartridge then it's a problem. I do not see any difference in alignment of any cartridge with whatever profile following the manual. The alignment must be completely off to damage the records. |
chakster - I just want to point out that the dynamic compliance of the AT740 is 10, whereas the Nagaoka is 7.2 (they do not actually state 100hz, but that’s probably a reasonable assumption). On a scale reaching up to 35, the difference b/t 10 and 7.2 seems small. Yet 10 is still almost 50% higher than 7.2. Anyhow, if necessary, I’ll add mass to the tonearm. If I were really seeking a higher compliance cartridge, perhaps the AT740 wouldn’t be enough of a change? Thoughts? Here is a scale from Ortofon Support: Look if you think they did not actually stated 100Hz then it’s 10Hz in your opinion ? But it’s even worst :) Do you understand that converting from 100Hz to 10Hz dynamic compliance will only increase? As I said million times on this forum the compliance of Nagaoka is extremely low for an MM/MI cartridge. Audio-Technica are mid compliance cartridges, but my choice is not the model you just mentioned, anyway. If Dynamic Compliance measured @ 100Hz as 10.0 then @10Hz will be around 18-20cu Simply multiply on 1.7 or on 2 So Chakster, how do you explain Soundsmith’s decision to make low compliance, low output moving iron cartridges. What could possibly be the advantages over "The Voice" which is high output (2.12 mV), high compliance other then matching high weight tonearms? What are your favorite styli. I like the Gyger S to which Soundsmiths OCL is very similar. @mijostyn Nothing new here, Pickering and Stanton designed and made low impedance (low output) Moving Magnet cartridges, but not a low compliance! You can ask Peter why he made a low compliance, probably for high mass tonearms ? Because you can ask yourself who produce light mass tonearms today ? Those arms from the 70’s are about 5g effective moving mass, remember? And cartridge compliance was 30cu average or even 50cu. Here is a short sample from the review for Stanton 980 low impedance model: "Aficionados of moving-coil (MC) cartridges will be surprised and pleased to learn that 980LZS is indistinguishable from the very best moving-coil (MC) types in the most rigorous laboratory and aural tests. Stanton’s is an impressive dual achievement. I was continually aware that 980LZS sounded like a moving-coil (MC) cartridge. The bass was well defined and tight with good sonic clarity, as well as transient response and applause definition. Transparency of sound was excellent when reproducing the high recorded levels present on most direct-to-disc recordings. At no time did I notice any coloration of the music. The 980LZS is also one of the very few phono cartridges that can cleanly reproduce the cannon fire on the Telarc DG-10041 recording of Tchaikovsky’s 1812." - B.V.Pisha (Audio Review, Feb.1982) Stanton equivalent in Pickering line is XLZ-7500 low impedance version, low output, but high compliance. |
@peter_s I am assuming that the AT and the Nagaoka dynamic compliance values are reported for the same frequency. It’s fine if it’s 100hz - I said that was a reasonable assumption (though not stated by Nagaoka) in my post. In any case, I was just pointing out that the value for the Nagaoka (7.2) isn’t that different than for the AT740 (10). Even if you convert them both down to 10hz (x2 or x1.7), the ratio stays the same. Right, but there is a difference between 7.2 and 10, don’t you think so ? And lower models of Nagaoka MP series are 5.5 - this is extremely low compliance. Do you know that with a cartridge like this people are using tonearms with 30g effective mass (those tonearms are super heavy and associated with 70’s era). But Nagaoka making MP cartridge today with dynamic compliance as low as Denon DL-103 from the 60’s. The problem is that tonearms of today are NOT heavy. If tonearm/cartridge matching is important for you I think you have to increase the mass of headshell. |
@rauliruegas In Russia, where I'm from, we normally break the nose of a person who's saying in public anything you said in your previous posts. But since you have mental problems and almost everyone on audiogon is aware of your mental problems, I will leave it like that. You're nothing but a p......y, who act like a p......y on public forums and luckily banned on most of them, except this one for some reason. If you want to say anything to me, say it directly to me and I will reply to let people know who you really are. If you think I'm selling something please post a proof with links. |
