Inexpensive Good Vintage Turntables?

@lohanimal The GL75 or a close matching model from Lenco is a good option.

The Lenco GL75 is very good suggestion and Lenco Heaven Forum is a great place to find ideas, instruction, pictorials and inspiration to get it up to its very best.

Another bonus of the GL75 is that there are designs produced for it by owners that can be seen on the LH Forum, that have it in use as a Belt Drive and Idler Drive.

@clearthinker to retain an already extant product in use for a longer period and not replace it with a new one, however environmentally friendly its producer claims it to be, will always trump the production of a new item.

The methods you use are very much in place and maintained within my system.

Racks Built using Repurposed Wood and Salvaged Granite Stone cut into the correct dimensions. The same Granite was used to produce a Idler Drive Plinth approx’ 20+ years past.

Wall Racks produced from a Salvaged Material that was a Surplus Gallows Type Brackets, the used Shelf Material that has been a Salvaged Item that is a extremely highly compressed material, it is actually the most compressed form of the used material.

The Power Amp’s are seated on a Construction of a Salvaged Sub Floor Material used in Laboratories to assist with Vibration Management and rested on this Structure is a 200Kg repurposed Engineers Granite Slab.

Most of my equipment is a, 'one off', Bespoke Built Device, either built from scratch or from a Donor Model of which the youngest donor used to date, is from a product produced from the 2000 era.

The last 'usually used' concept of of purchasing an item I have bought,  is a used sale item CDT. The DAC I use with this is a Prototype from a EE, belonging to an earlier design of theirs, I had some of their latest designs added to the device, as there were New Parts produced using modern manufacturing approaches that were offering improvements over the earlier ones used in the design.

Apart from Two Types of Tubes, all other Tubes in use are Vintage, ranging from early 1960’s Production with the youngest Vintage being 845’s produced from the 1980’s.

I know through experiences that a Item produced in another era, can excel as a device when a use of a modern produced material is added to it, or when a design intent has a modern approach as part of the fundamental for the rethink of the devices function.

I have no desire to condemn any Technology from any era, even though some of the sins of the designs are glowing clearly in the spotlight when assessed, I know these supplied devices have been able to supply numerous hours of enjoyment for their users, I will not poo poo on that, with unnecessary commentary .

In general when modern Technologies are adopted by Industries as a global usage, there are benefits for all flora / fauna that are impacted on by the improvements of the industrial practices are creating, the only shortcoming is the speed at which these approaches are being adopted.

In the normal World with the usual occurrences taking place, Industry is here to stay, any other thoughts about its future is fantastical.

It is better that the practices being adopted, even though slowly are seen to be beneficial other than detrimental.

I have very little concerns about using wood, I use densified woods produced by a few Brands known for the quality of their products. I have peace of mind where maintaining stability and dependability is the requirement for the use of a wood. These materials will not turn into anything other than what I intended for them in my life time and very likely a few other life times as well,  if the devices using my selection of densified wood are around for the that long.

The Following supplied info', is a Copy/Paste of info' I had offered recently in another Thread.

The producer of the Info' has a vast experience with LP replay equipment from Vintage to Modern spanning a price range from Hundreds of $'s to $50-80 000+.

A report of this nature from an individual with nothing to gain and with a very attractive experience of using equipment that spans across many decades in comparisons, should hopefully be enough for the OP to consider this TT as a Model of interest.

It meets the Brief, Vintage, DD, and Affordable.   

It is reports of this calibre about the Aurex/Toshiba SR-510 that encouraged myself to purchase a selection of these TT's, to be added to my growing collection of Vintage DD TT's.  

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Toshiba Aurex SR 510 drive with 12" Thorens tonearm.

The Toshiba drive was supposed to compete with the Technics SP 10 at the time is now and again at fair prices in the bay.

The weak point was the original tonearm at that time, and nowadays the integrated PhonoPre is no longer needed for the "special" Toshiba systems.

Greeting

Juergen

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the Toshiba SR 510 also plays with a friend of mine and doesn't need to hide from a Micro Seiki RX-1500 with Koetsu tonearm standing next to it. Thanks to the interchangeable headshell, the comparison (with the contemporary Yamaha MC-9) can be made quickly.

With my SR510, unfortunately, the original tonearm can only be repaired with (for me) greater effort, insofar as the assembly of a modern tonearm in the 1000 EUR class.

The TP92 tonearm is mounted reversibly, if you want to mount the original arm again, this can be done optically and technically without any difference to the original, since the Thorens TP92 hole is covered by the (black) original tonearm base (see pictures).


In fact, it would have been possible to have a frame for the Toshiba direct drive drive built on the basis of a Technics SP10 frame, for example. But in terms of price, it would make the project unnecessarily expensive and since the original frame can still be used "originally", ie it is not damaged by the additional drilling, I went this route.

On one of the next cool days I will devote myself to connecting the tone arm.

Greeting

Juergen

@clearthinker There are Technologies that have progressed and are in use today, due to their usage being proven to be fit for purpose. That have been cutting edge in providing non metal solutions for the methods employed to produce a mechanical device in all sectors of industry.

Aviation and Performance Vehicles are using Wood Products produced using very accurate and reliable methods for their construction, these wood products can be machined to have the tightest of tolerances, no different to a metal and will remain stable to perform as per their designed for function in all environments met.

The same Industries as above, are also using Composites and Thermoplastics, of which the merits for their usage is very well versed and adopted by numerous industries, each are known for their capability to be used in place of a metal.

The use of such materials are much more planet friendly as their production is not as energy absorbing as metals and the methods used to form shapes from the non metal materials, is requiring much less energy when moulding or machining.

Used as a Material Globally, the improvement in the environmental impact on the Planet, when selecting non metal materials is encouraged that is a good thing for all.

There are alternatives to the above, and methods can be adopted that will be the better for all.

All the above does not offer the same energy preservation as choosing to buy a already produced TT from a Vintage era, over a modern design.

Any methods where a obsolete Design/Model is given a resurrection and a second life gets my vote over any other methods used to acquire a device. 

If the chosen model is seen to be a little needy in some areas, and the wish is to get the device back up to a Top Level of performance, then why not see if a Modern Method for using materials will be fitting for ones needs.

I am slowly going through the process of swapping out worn sacrificial Bearing Housing Parts for ones produced from Thermoplastics and other non metal materials.  

@best-groove Thank You for showing the Image of the Stator Housing Bowl.

I have been working with a few Brands of Japanese Vintage DD TT's and have the intention to carry out modifications, where the use a modern material to be used an alternative for the Sacrificial Parts from the Platter Spindle Bearing Assembly.

At the same time of carrying out an investigation, I check the Stator Bowl to see if there is a likely risk of flexion developing and causing Vertical Axis Run Out.

I have a between two an three models of the ones being worked on, the intention is to undertake tests of the 'modified' vs 'used but original spec'.

This as a modification method is already underway between a small group on the Sony TTS 8000, and is one seen adopted by some who offer Vintage equipment as their own products. 

In my view the Vintage DD TT's in general have got the Speed Stability nailed, especially when Quartz controlled, the electronics are a concern, but many buy into the TT, accepting the risks.

There are many methods for Vintage TT's, that are seen for the mounting of the TT, the usual considerations are, use original Plinth, use a new material and design concept, as well as mount the TT 'in a Plinth/No Plinth. Obviously the 'no plinth' introduces new considerations for mounting the Tonearm. 

The age of the Bearing, Historical Rotations (usually unknown), Condition of the Bearing, are the most commonly overlooked area where a concerning issue might be present. A squirt of oil down a shaft is a real gamble, if thought of as the only requirement. For my sins, I can't rest with this as the only method, the idea that a expensive Cart' is working in conjunction with a non optimised Bearing Assembly leaves myself unrestful.  

Looking at the JVC Bowl Image, the material looks like it might be the most substantial gauge of metal used on any TT from this era, the Mounting Rim and Walls are looking like they are able to maintain a very rigid coupling to the Chassis and not yield when exertion through operation is met.

As a guess, I would expect a very low concern for a Vertical Axis Run Out occurring and if need be, a very simple measure needed to improve the condition if present. 

Has anybody got any knowledge if this TT has been produced as a Kaneta Method.

I now have a friend to produce the Kaneta Design for the SP10 MkII, the Bowl is to be very tight tolerance embedded into Densified Wood, to reduce the Vertical Axis Run Out, and hopefully leave any concerns to within the assembly within the Bearing Housing.

I am over the moon as I have been knocking on the doors of two friends with this method as an idea for quite some time.

Both friends producers of Tonearms and are also SP10 MkII users, these type of undertakings are best left to those who are adept with correct skills.

The friend to produce the Kaneta Design, has taken the idea a stage further, where there is to be a Thermoplastic Platter produced, with a rim design to lower the centre of gravity and increase inertia. The rim design will also incorporate a design to enable additional methods to add weight and further increase inertia.

The other friend sees their work heading toward the SP10 MkII Platter Spindle Bearing, and a design is on the table an to be imminently produced.

It is time to get the two talking again, to see if an agreement can be come to, to allow the Modified Bearing Designs New Bowl, to be mountable into the Kaneta Design Plinth.

This will be quite a change over the original, and also allow the Thermoplastic Platter to be used in both the Kaneta Design configurations. 

@best-groove This certainly is a method that is 'no plinth' when compared to a conventional Plinth design. There does seem to be a supporting structure attached to the TT, and is also a mounting device for the Tonearms.

I have also seen a Selection of Standalone Arm Pods set up around the TT where multiple Tonearms were being utilised.

@billwojo As said, I rely on the skills of others to achieve some of my ambitions for a design, when an individual sees the idea as a relevant investigation, and is willing to take on the project for their own means, then that is a great help to what I am looking to achieve.

The Kaneta Design for the SP10 MkII is originating in Japan through a Dr Kaneta, he is today still quite influential in his other Electronic Designs and has a Variety of Amp's and Phonostages and a DAC, that are using not too common electronic devices as a key component in a circuit.    

To produce an Kaneta Design SP10 MkII, it requires the removal of the Stator Bowl from the Chassis and for it to be mounted into a purpose produced Plinth, that will keep the Axis of the Platter Spindle in a True Alignment.

In Japan I have mainly seen a Board Material used as the material the Stator Bowl is mounted into.

Outside of Japan there are designs that are using Polybentonite Resin Moulds to produce the Structure to mount the Stator Bowl into.

Through private discussion I have been informed a Kaneta owner using a PolyB' Resin Plinth and a Modified Platter, has this model used in preference of their          SP10 R.

This is the method I am encouraging, but to use a Densified Wood Plinth that shares similar Damping and Dissipation properties to the PolyB' Resin mouldings.  

I acquired Three Spare SP10 MkII Platters, to work with to produce a composite design that is a method used by another Kaneta user.

One Platter will have a 20mm Thick Acetal Disc Mechanically Fastened to the Platter, and another with a 10mm Gunmetal Disc and 10mm Acetal Disc Mechanically fastened to the Platter, and the second version can be trialed as a Gunmetal only design as well.

I know of a person who has produced a SS Platter and Gunmetal Platter to be used on the Kaneta design they produce, and the two platters have been extremely similar to their latter Platter version of the Composite version for the Original Platter with the 20mm Acetal fastened to it.          

There is also a need to produce an off board EE Circuitry to enable Power on/off and speed selection, even though I have seen the Kaneta produced, with a limit to being a 33 Speed only design.

Modifying the Bearing on the SP10 MkII has a more complex methodology and is not just a case of using the OEM parts as a repurposed method for them, and being able to reassemble the TT to its original build spec if so desired.