importance of phono cartridge

Dsremer,
I agree with Nsgarch, Stanhifi and DanEd.

If we assume appropriate equipment matching, then IMO and IME a $5K TT/arm with a $1600 cartridge will nearly always outplay a $1600 TT/arm with a $5K cartridge.

I'd even state that putting a $5K cartridge on a $1600 TT/arm would be a mis-use of resources. You won't hear what that cartridge is capable of, but you will hear all the problems and shortfalls of the table and arm. I've put $300 cartridges on my $9K rig and been amazed. I've put $2-4K cartridges on my $1K second rig and been horrified.

Nrchy's source-first theory is correct, but in analog the table IS the source. The table provides the environment in which the record and the tonearm both function. The arm provides the environment in which the cartridge functions. It's like building a house, and the table is the foundation. The best roof in the world ain't worth crap if the foundation is rotten.

***
I strongly disagree that an expensive phono stage should come before a good table, arm and cartridge. If you look at my system you will see it is at present heavily front end loaded. In list price terms:
- table: $5,000
- arm: $3,900
- cartridge: $7,500
- stepup trannies + phono section of preamp: approx. $1,000

I do not maintain this mix is optimal. In fact our next major upgrade will be a reference caliber preamp/phono stage. However, I do maintain that the order of our upgrades was optimal. I have demoed reference caliber phono sections/preamps in my system. None of them made as big an improvement as my latest TT upgrade, which cost me only $2K.

I've also exchanged visits with many fellow audio nuts. Most have invested heavily in their electronics, a bit less on their cartridge and much less on their table and arm. IME this mix was misguided.

Both they and I agree that my system easily outplays theirs when spinning vinyl. More than one such visitor has expressed astonishment at our sound quality, despite our admittedly modest phono/preamp. It is not a reference caliber unit, but when fed a reference caliber signal it does very little harm. Systems that send a mediocre signal into a reference caliber preamp produce only reference caliber mediocrity.

If you, like most of us, must upgrade in stages for budgetary reasons, the best order for superior sound reproduction at each stage is normally: table, arm, cartridge, phono. For the sake of practicality, choose a good table that can accomodate different arms. Then you can upgrade arms without changing tables. Choose an arm that can accommodate many cartridges, for the same reason.

Reylon,
Good examples. Here are two more:
Teres 265/TriPlanar VII/ADC XLM Mk II ($175 in its day): sublime
H-K/Rabco ST-8/Shelter 901 or ZYX Airy: ridiculous

Nsgarch,
Oscar Wilde might not have said it better, but he would have said it shorter!

Dennis,

Do let us know how your new cartridge sounds. I don't know anyone else using an Airy 3 on that rig. You are pioneering for us all.

BTW, what cartridge(s) were you using on the Scout before?

Your PH5's gain is marginal for a .24mv cartridge, so you may not hear all the dynamic punch an Airy 3 has to offer. OTOH, the silver coil ZYX's tend to sound a bit heftier (and warmer) than the copper ones. Hopefully that will help.

I'd try both the 200 and 100 ohm impedance settings on the PH5. Once the cartridge is broken in I'd expect 100 ohms will probably sound best, but of course your ears must be the judge.

Check out my Airy review and the one at 10audio.com for lots of setup and break-in tips and other trivia.

Enjoy!
Doug

Jtimothya,
Great post, great insights. Thanks.

Dsremer,
If you got the HO Airy 3 then I retract my statement about the PH5's gain. It should be perfect.

Raul,

I'm curious about your thoughts on the original question. Which do you think would sound better:

a) a $5K cartridge on a $1,600 rig (TT + arm) or,
b) a $5K rig with a $1,600 cartridge?

If these were your only choices, which would you choose and why?

P.S. Thanks for the phono stage ideas. You'll recall I said we've demoed several that outperform ours. They just don't outperform by as much as a TT, arm or cartridge upgrade.

I have a very good idea how much more phono stage performance is available, and it isn't as much as we got from upgrading those other components. That's why we did them first of course. Our new custom power amp was also a bigger sonic improvement than a new phono or line stage. Once step at a time, and one might as well get the most for one's money at each step.

Thanks also for the offer to build us one. I'd enjoy hearing it of course, but I assume it doesn't use tubes, right? To date, no solid state device of any kind that we've heard has been satisfying to our ears and tastes. You are especially bothered by frequency response variations. We are especially bothered by the damage transistors do to smooth waveforms. YMMV as they say.