2. analog
  3. 148938-123367

I'm putting to rest worrying about sibilance

I just ran a test on three different turntables I own. I played various recordings, each of which exhibit sibilance to some degree, mostly female vocalists. The three tables are pro-ject the classic with the hana el, music hall mmf7 with factory mounted eroica h, and my brand new thorens td 240-2 with the ortofon om10 also factory installed. My dilemma began with constant worrying about the first table (the pro-ject) as I thought I was hearing a bit of sibilance only on certain records. So I played the very same records, mostly used from thrifts etc, on all three tables and adjusting volume or gain for each. Well, I found that all three table and cartridge combinations exhibit the sibilance in the same parts of songs on each recording. My findings are that what I perceive as higher sibilance on the hana can be contributed to its (imo) better high frequency response. In other words, the other tables and cartridges had the sibilance, but to a lesser prominence, but it WAS there. So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree, and more so with used records. I have farted around enough with the hana el and I am no longer going to fret over it. I would have a hard time believing that all three tables and cartridges are that badly aligned etc to all cause some sibilance here and there. All three were checked and seem to be dead on. The only table I personally installed cartridge on was the pro- ject (hana el) also, three preamps were tried during testing, my marantz pm14s1 built in, a musical fidelity lx lps, and a pro-ject tube box ds2. Lastly the hana el was adjusted when installed to align with the cartridge body and not the cantilever (just easier imo) using a proper protractor, and the vta was adjusted so that the hana is a bit ass down, as I think the hana sounds right like that. So there is my conclusion. I’ve been reading forum after forum about the sibilance issue somehave, but I think I feel better after doing what I did as described above, and refuse to drive my self nuts any longer!😁
Just to add, the listening was first performed on the other 2 tables, the mmf7 and thorens, again both have factory installed cartridges, also checked by me. In doing so I ruled out the hana inscribing the record grooves with the sibilance in the event its mis aligned, which it is not....
128x128audioguy85

Showing 5 responses by millercarbon

millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Just went back and read my posts again and darned if it isn't clear to me they cover exactly everything you are talking about. Some pressings are like this. No two pressings are exactly the same. So it does no good whatsoever, gets you absolutely nowhere, to ask another person where THEIR copy of whatever has sibilance. THEIR copy is not YOUR copy. They are not the same. If you're not happy with your copy go find another one. All you can do.

Oh and if instead of randomly buying and hoping you want to buy only the very rare exceptionally unbelievably good sounding copy then here it is https://www.better-records.com/product.aspx?pf_id=ronstforse_1905
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Singers: When a vocalist is about to hit a power note, they must move their mouth away from the microphone. You've all seen it, and heard it. If they don't, they overload the mic.
No, that's not it. What they're doing is exploiting the way a microphone's frequency response changes with distance. Up close its boomy and bass heavy. Further away the bass reinforcement falls off and the higher ranges become more clear.

Either that, or all those supremely talented and highly paid performers are putting up with crappy easily overloaded microphones. Time after time. Everywhere they go. Forever. Instead of just asking for a better mic.


millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Sibilance has two meanings people sometimes get crossed up. The one we've been talking about (or I have, anyway) is the spitty exaggerated sort that makes it sound like your record is dirty, the cartridge is mistracking, or you just got a bad pressing. 

But there's also the sibilance that is nothing more than the normal sssss ssssound the air makes moving between the teeth. The kind of sibilance that is a challenge for microphones and recording engineers. 

What I am saying, which is also the way I read the OP and noromance, is you can tweak and clean and align to your hearts content and still not eliminate all the annoying sibilance because once you do all that it still comes down to the pressing, some of which have it no matter what you do.

So when that is the case, relax. Nothing you can do then but go looking for a better copy.
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
Its not the recording. If it was the recording then it would be on every copy of every LP ever made. If it was the recording it would be on reissues. It would for that matter be on the CDs! Its not the recording. Its the pressing.

Its quality control all right but its way more than that. The short version of the story is you take any production run of any record from any stamper cut by any mastering engineer and the great majority will be average, with a lot of below average copies with noise and sibilance and just generally crappy sounding, and with a really incredibly good sounding copy coming off every once in a while.

Early original pressings tend to be better. Reissues tend to be a whole lot worse. But these are tendencies, and there are exceptions. Still, by and large, reissues suck.

And yeah, those Ronstadt/Riddle recordings were all mastered by Doug Sax at The Mastering Lab and sound fab!


millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
 So my conclusion is that it Is just inherent in the lp medium to some degree


Congratulations on figuring that much out. That is more than most. So far however you have compared the same LP on different rigs. But what about different copies of the same LP?

For years until recently I always assumed that aside from the occasional bad (noisy) pressing they were all otherwise the same. Now if you do the same test only playing different copies of the same LP I can just about guarantee you will find no two copies sound the same!

Some have truly awful sibilance. Some have none at all. I'm not talking any two, I'm talking two copies of the same recording! Like you it bothers me a whole lot less now that I know its the pressing and not a dirty stylus, misalignment, mis-tracking, or any of that. 

If you have any dupes in your collection I highly recommend taking the time to play and compare them side by side. The differences sometimes are huge, and involve a whole lot more than just sibilance.
More to discover