Guido, as far as I know the Atsah are not listed to be at the show.
But perhaps they could be a last minute show. |
Thank you Guido.
Really Jason, what are my so called ties! I have NO FINANCIAL AFFILIATION WITH MERRILL AUDIO OR HYPEX OR BRUNO OR JAN-PETER!
Just because I happen to live in NJ, as does Merrill and I met him through several Audio Clubs we both belong to does not make me unbiased!
I have meet MANY other BIG and SMALL audio manufactures from the Clubs, so am I biased about them too? Or the ones I have met at the various Audio Shows and speak to on the phone from time to time? Give me a break!
I call it as I hear it nothing more, nothing less. I have said it before, I am a fan boy of the Veritas. And I have also stated I am a fan boy of ALL the Hypex Ncore Tech(NC400).
If you bothered to be unbiased yourself you should have noticed I mentioned that the MOLA-MOLA was also going to be at the show. I am just as excited to hear the Mola-Mola with the Vivid Speakers as I am the Veritas with the Raidho Speakers. The three other are brands I have looked foreword to hearing.
I take my reputation and my word very seriously. So put up or shut up. Just remember Jason you live in a glass house before you throw that stone.
So I must unbiased, NOT!!
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Guido.
I will try and do my best but all I really can do is give my opinion how each sound on their own. Three different rooms, speakers(and types), sources etc. I will try and take notes for each room. |
Guido, you are wright about the adudtion of the Mola-Mola. Unless they change what I have been told. There is a dealer in NJ I have spoke to and was told I could addition the Mola-Mola.
Unfortunately I have been dealing with a back problem since last July that got worse to the point of having to have a operation. The last six weeks of recovery is going well and God willing I will be at the NY Show in April. So that is were I will hear them.
As much as I want to hear the Mola-Mola I have also wanted to hear both the Vivid and Raidho. This new Diamond Driver that Raidho is using sounds very interesting.
Its first break up is at 20khz! It seems to me using this driver and their tweeter it would be like one seamless point source! If the bass goes low enough and is tight and "full/deep", WOW. I like the KEF Blade but the bass is just short of what it should be. At these prices a speaker should give it all to you.
Till later. |
Thanks, you both brought a tear to my eyes ;)
But seriously it is nice to hear that my posts have helped in anyway and are understood hat I am just a fan.boy, ha.
Tim, no bias, just enthuseium as you state at the end. But I guess enthuseium could be called a form of bias, not.
I have liked many brands over the years, but they were all well known with many followers and did not need me to add to the noise.
I have liked, used or would recommend with enthuseium;
Ayer, Theta, Wedia, Norton, Synergistic Research, B&W, Stillpoints (current version), PSA PW DAC MK II, Pass Labs, and many more...
But it is very rare that a new "tech" or way of doing it comes along and kind of rerights he rules, sort of speaks.
I think the NCore NC1200 is one of those. I also think the Phasure NOS DAC could be another (it just needs a better GUI).
I also think there is another but I can not comment yet. Perhaps in a month.
I will say that the new Stillpoints are unbelievable in what they can do. Even a friend who is a reviewer was amazed at what they did in his system when I brought mine over to try in his system. Mind you he expected not to hear much or anything. It was very easy to hear the improvement.
Well enough of that as one day I will post about the Stillpoints. |
Kana813
I have no business. If you checked my other posts I have stated so many times it is getting nauseating.
I HAVE NO FINANCIAL OR OTHERWISE INTEREST IN MERRILL AUDIO OR HYPEX!!! I am just a fan and owner of the Veritas amps. Do you own the companies that you are a fan of (MAGTECH).
That is great for your friend and I respect his choice because he ACTUAL made a comparison in his system.
That does not mean you would agree as you should hear it in your system for yourself. |
Noble100
As they say in Jersey, "How yu dooin"
Yes, this will be no easy task.
On #1, I can not agree only because I have not heard the AI Atsah. I can agree that the Veritas is. But even if the AI sounds great I have one issue and that is the way they laid out the back connections. It is way to tight for many types of cabling for my comfort level. Just my impression and concern.
#2 is correct.
#3 is correct. Unless they are added .
Your comment on the differences in speaker types is correct but must be expanded, IMHO.
1)The Vivid is a floor standing speaker with a fuller range.
2)The Raidho is a stand mount and is not a full range.
3)The Sanders is a full range speaker.
Also the Raidho has the new Diamond mid/bass driver that has its first breakup at 20khz, so in some ways it should be able to be compared to the Sanders,IMHO.
Singer is having the floor stand version of the Diamond Raidho at the show and I will check that out. Just wish that the Veritas was driving them.
Guido is correct that there is just the three at this time.
I also agree that "best" is relative. But it is all just individual opinions.
I will say the I have heard the Sanders and the Veritas at a friends who has a dedicated room with treatments.
WOW! Did I say, WOW! I did say WOW?!
I will post more on that in a separate post at a later date.
However I will be going into the show with an open mind as always.
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Drubin
I agree in small part of your FLoA. However this friend is not of those stripes at all. He also waited several months before going foreword so it was no impulse buy. He just is not the impulse buying type. He thought long and hard before he went with the Veritas. As I said the Magtech is a really good sounding amp so he had no reason to spend more money to get a tiny improvement in sound. He is just not that way or that free with his money. AND NEITHER AM I.
But unless you have actually heard those "ANY new product" in your system with the time needed to do a proper evaluation you might be the one who "Don't mean a thing"
Also the Veritas actual cost more then the Magtech so that part falls short. |
OK, it might take a few days to put thoughts to paper as I have work commitments but I will do what I can when I can.
Just for full disclosure, Merrill Audio was nice enough to get passes for myself and a few others. However I DO NOT HAVE ANY AFFILIATION WITH MERRILL AUDIO other then knowing Merrill from the clubs we belong to and the fact that I own a pair of Veritas Amps. In the near future you will see posts from me praising two other manufactures, one being Stillpoints Ultra series. Also people who know me always hear me praise the PS Audio PW DAC MK II. I think it competes with DACs costing $15,000 and more.
1)I was there on Fri and Sat. I am not the only one (many from the audio clubs) to notice the sound in most of the rooms changed from day to day. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. Some thought it did even on the same day.
) Dgarreston. I kind of agree with you but we part on a few spots.
Yes the Vivid and Raidho rooms on Friday left something to be desired. Both the Merrill and Mola-Mola amps not only "by a country mile" but I think compete head on with the big boys of Class A-A/B.
We part on the Martin Logan/Krell for a few reasons.
A)The ML/K room had two ML subs($12,000), top Nordost Cabing, and a price point with all the equipment from ML/Krell/Nordost of around $130,000-150,000.
The Merrill Audio room,besides the amps and speakers, had inexpensive cables and equipment. Price point $36,000 plus cables and DAC; Well you get the Power cables from Merrill audio as they come with the amps, the speaker cables come with the Sanders, so say $40,000. That is less the 1/3 the price and could be (most likely) 1/4 the price.
B)And this a BIG one. I had a front row center seat, the sweet spot, and as good as it sounded my ears started to hurt. It reminded me of Class D Amps. It became fatiguing.
Dob; Yes, that was a surprise ($9,000). I had a chance to hear them on Sat. You can tell they are part of the family as they have a very nice sound. However, "butt ugly" enclosure and color.
Now to comparing the rooms, OH NO MR BILL!. Yea that is impossible.
What I can do is give some of my impressions.
But that will have to wait. But I will say that You should demo the Merrill Audio and Mola-Mola amps as they are killers for the money.
More Later.
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Noble100, ha, ha, no, no offense. I took it in the spirit it was intended. Ha, who could relax with all that pressure!!!
With everyone waiting to hear my opinion, HA, HA.
Like I have said before, "music and the way we reproduce it is like food..." |
Lets get something straight.
My posts on equipment consist on three types. And post what type it is.
1) I heard it in MY system and to me this is the most important one. I have what I would describe as a very good system that is transparent and resolving (among other things). If a change is subtle I will hear it. I DO NOT LOOK FOR SUBTLE CHANGES in my system. I do not have the money or the time for subtle. It must be an across the board improvement in sound and NOT SUBTLE and not at the expense of other areas of the sound.
2) I heard it in a friends or Club Members system that has a very good system. Hearing equipment here could and has peaked my interest to investigate further.
3) I heard it at a dealer who I am familiar with their set up. This is a "do not drive under the influence" and "precede with caution".
I do not care if the equipment is of the same "Tech/Class/Design/Engineering etc" because unless you have heard THAT product in Your system you really do not have an opinion on that equipment. You are just making an assumption.
Here is a short list of equipment that I have had in my system that I can highly recommend to demo.
I am not saying these are the best just the best I have heard so far and are worth spending your time on.
1) Synergistic Research Galileo Speaker and Interconnect Cells. Just with the entry level cables they come with they beat out some HIGHLY regarded brands that cost far more. I should have kept these.
2) And their Power Cell 10 SE MK II. Again beat out several highly regarded Brands in my system.
Both of the above was by no small margin.
3) PS AUDIO PW DAC MK II with Bridge. For the money hard to beat and it is upgradeable. Set up the right way it rivals DAC's at two to three times the price.
4) The new Stillpoints Ultra SS. All I can say is WOW. Just make sure not to just try them only in one area under your equipment as you my need to find the sweet spot. The Ultra Mini are also worth checking out.
5) I am in the process of demoing something that so far has impressed me but I need to give it the break-in time it needs before I can do any critical listening and comments.
Enough for now.
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I have been very busy this past week and still am but had to respond to the two above posts.
Dob: "warmish and dull" Really?! It is your opinion but what show were you at. Not the same as I.
I heard loads of people from the show say many things about the Sanders/Merrill Audio, Mola-Mola/Vivid, Merrill Audio/Raidho and Tube Audio Labs rooms, but while some liked what they heard and others not so much I never heard anyone describe the sound in the rooms as "warmish and dull". Several people thought the Mola-Mola/Vivid room sounded "bright and harsh" at times. I was at the show Fri and Sat. On Fri I thought the room sounded very good but on Sat a little bright. However I would not point the a finger at any one piece of equipment, amp, speaker, CD player, DAC, preamp etc. It very well could have been the music track as some are poorly recorded.
Keep in mind that show conditions are NOT the best place to get a true feel of what equipment will sound like. Some get lucky in their set up and others do not.
I have heard the Spectron amps and do like them very much.
But I also know many Spectron owners who after demoing NC1200 mono blocks have sold the Spectron and bought the NC1200 based amps.
Kana813: First that was a shared room with both Sanders Sound and Merrill Audio.
Well lets compare an apple to an apple. You are comparing a stereo amp to a mono block. Well Sanders makes a Mono Block version of his amps. And the price is much more as a mono block-$11,000. So lets lets discuss the sound.
The Magtech is a fine sounding amp. But as I have stated in another post; I have a friend who owns the Sanders speakers and amps, upon hearing the Merrill Audio Veritas vs the Sanders amps he replaced them with the Veritas. This person is VERY critical of the sound of his system and has spent a lot of money on his overall system. It was not an easy decision financially as the cost is not small. He is not independently wealthy.
We all have different tastes in what we like in the reproduction in sound. But you should do a direct demo in your system (with a reasonable amount of time) before you dish a product. Even if you think it is "all the same" as for the tech.
Also as I have stated in another post. Is this the best. No, nothing is. But for the price it ranks with the best. Now you have to decide what is your taste, Tubes/Chinese, Class A/Italian, NC1200/Dessert. They are all great just choose the one that meets your taste. |
I most make a correction in my above post. The Magtech price is for a pair. But I stand by the rest of the post.
Even more so, as my friend had to spend a hell of a lot more to replace the Magtech amps with the Veritas amps. Way more then I thought he had. |
Boy was I tired last night. There was no need for the correction after all. It was still more just not a hell of a lot more. |
Isanchez
Very interesting. Lets assume it was not a bad batch of modules.
Then if the "noise" was not present during the silence parts then it can not be the equipment. If the noise was inherent in the equipment you would hear it all of the time, even during the moments of silence.
The one aspect that the NCore tech that is in the NC1200 OEM and the NC400 DIY modules that everyone who has had a chance to hear one or the other in their own systems is the total lack of noise or Class D sound.
I have to say it had to be the software or perhaps the venue as over the weekend I heard most of the rooms go from bad to good, good to bad sometimes in the same day.
A Club member who is very critical and has the knowledge told me that many of the room were being greatly affected by the AC and the electric in the rooms.
I can tell you I am very sensitive to that type of noise and could never live with it in my system. |
Isanchez
I quote you below.
"Many OEM class D designs have had noise issues in the past and the latest generation seems to have corrected that. The NC1200 is in in first iteration, so I'm confident that this is an issue that will be dealt with in future generations."
Well the NC1200 is the LATEST "ITERATION" so...
And his take on the sound is no were near what you describe, just the opposite. Though still not good. But was it the room, the source or something else.
You mention the one quote from PF but what about this one from the same poster.
"Merrill Audio, Raidho Acoustics
The Raidho D-1 Monitors were stunning on their custom stands. (The integrated speaker package has an MSRP of $28,000.) It was quite surprising how they are able to fill the room. For a smallish profile, they were amazingly full range and dynamic. This was another room with Merrill Audio amplification."
It would seem they were fine sounding in this room with the Raidho Speakers.
Also this is just a report of the show not a full fledged review.
Look, you heard what you heard. I am not saying otherwise. Just that it was not an ideal way to judge ANY equipment that was at the show.
What I am saying is I know the NC1200 (and the NC400) very well and in many different systems with many types of speakers and it is in another league when it comes to Class D. It is equal to other types of amp Classes.
If you keep an open mind and you have a chance to hear the Veritas or the Mola-Mola or the DIY NC400 assembled properly (I can not vouch for ones I have not heard) in your system properly set up you will be surprised at how well it sounds. That does not mean it is for you. Your taste might be tubes or whatever. If we all liked the exact same sound it would be a very boring world for Audiophiles and the companies that build the equipment would be few. |
I agree, that is what I look for in my system. But the best tube amps I have heard are very clean with the least distortion. Unfortunately way too costly, $30,000 and up.
But I understand that some people like the sound that some tube amps that have the "distortion" you like.
As a counter to the PF post see the post below on HP Soundings from the Brill Report.
"My first stop was the small Raidho room, where their new D-1 loudspeaker was partnered with Merrill Audio amplification and a Kondo preamplifier. All of the zest and verve in the Jarosz tune was delivered by this system with great tactile flair, especially capturing Jaroszs soaring vocals and her sparkling mandolin hits. A little bass boom was apparent, but this was a nice demonstration of the Raidhos superb coherency, galvanizing high-octane energy and overall gift for capturing pace and rhythm. Interestingly, even in this small room, one could gain a palpable feel for the recording venue, particularly noticeable on another cut I played here: the Willowtwist from Michael Gandolfis remarkable piece, The Garden of Cosmic Speculation [Telarc SACD]. With the Raidho system, you were seated in the balcony of Atlantas Woodruff Performing Arts Center with the sprawling Atlanta Symphony spread out before you."
And also this.
"Pure sounding could also nicely describe the Sanders Sounds 10c Electrostatic Speakers partnered with Merrill Audio electronics. Although they were positioned to listen very near field, the Sanders performed spritely and with more tonal weight than I expected on Jaroszs feathery high vocals and on her bassists quick plunges. You could lean-in towards these speakers (positioned only a few feet away) and yet be immersed in a deep, layered soundstage that was quite impressive and full of inner tactile treats."
I must ask, did you (or anyone) sit in the "sweet spot", front center, location in all the rooms you visited in order to evaluate the sound of the rooms?
If you (or anyone) did bravo to you, if not then your evaluation has to be off, just like your seating position.
Anyway enjoy your Spectron amp, they are great sounding amps. I actually almost bought a pair of the mono blocks before I heard the NCore based amps (DIY NC400-OEM NC1200). My only other choice was the Pass Labs Class A (160-200 watts) mono amps.
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Guido and others; the TRL NC1200 based amps are in the center of this photo and are orange/gold in color.
http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=78956 |
Also here is another professional posting of the listening impressions of the sound in the Merrill Audio Veritas and Mola-Mola amps rooms.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/new-york-audio-show-the-big-apple-goes-big-time/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&page=2&utm_source=email-109
"Rhapsody Music and Cinema outfitted three rooms, each at different price points. At the lower end room (relatively speaking), I met a new company with the unlikely name of Mola-Mola. New York was effectively its U.S. launch, with products becoming available in June. On hand were the $10k preamp and the Bruno Putzeys-designed Class D $15k monoblocks. They were sourced by the all-new, double-DSD capable Luxman DA-06 DAC ($6k, June). Driving the Giya G1 speakers and wired with Kabula-Sosna cables, the sound was, in a word, lovely.
At the highest price level, Rhapsody fielded a roomful of equipment from Kondo Audio Note Japan. (Note to manufacturer: could you please just call yourselves Kondo?) There were Kondo Audio Note Japan (OK, thats the last time Im doing that) speakers, electronics, cables and table, plus a Pi Greco CD player. Total price: $400k, including a prototype of the 55 Watt Kagura SET monoblock amps, which will see production next year at a price somewhere north of $160k.
Although the sound in the Kondo (
.) room was very fine, I personally was more taken by Rhapsodys middle room, which was anchored by the amazing, stand-mounted Raidho D-1.1 ($28,500). Are these guys on a roll or what? As driven by a Kondo G70 preamplifier (see how much better that works?) and Merrill Veritas amps, the Raidhos delivered better bass than any speaker this size has a right to. Overall, the sound was sweet and spacious, despite some room-borne mid-bass resonance. BTW, elsewhere in the show, this same amp paired beautifully with Sanders Sounds new flagship stat, the 10C ($14k). The duo delivered some of the best imaging I heard, along with other virtues, such as transparency, that one expects from good electrostatics." |
Noble100: I totally agree with your statement. |
Kana813: Well this has been done before with Hypex UCD.
An example is the Genesis Reference Amplifier.
Link. http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/grefamps.html
And done very well.
I am also very curious to see how well the PS Audio amps turn out. |
Noble100: Mola-Mola is Hypex/Ncore.
I hate to burst your bubble but it is my understanding that Hypex has no plans to have the Ncore at a lower price point. Maybe someday they will release a down the product line Ncore. But that is why they have the UCD line. So I doubt it.
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Tim/Noble100:Your price for the PS Audio amp is out of date.
Paul is trying to keep it just under $4000.00. It is a dual mono(single chases) to help keep costs down. See below from the PS Audio Forum.
"adminPaul McGowan February 25 Reply QuoteThanks
Posts: 2,862PS Expert
Finally, we are less than a week away from listening to the prototype amp in its chassis. Here's a picture of the insides.
I've heard bits and pieces cobbled together but not all that we put into the amp and not in a form where I can start dialing it in.
What you see here is the 350 watt per channel dual mono amp that can do 700 into 4 and 1200 into 2.
The big board on the left is the Class A gain stage that's all discrete and makes the amp sound like it does. We're probably looking at $3995 for this dual mono version - but it'll drive about anything made.
I should be able to listen to it this weekend - Bob's promised me i can start testing and evaluating, tweaking, voicing and all that we do by then.
I am stoked to actually be able to try this beauty."
Also, the UCD that Paul has mentioned using may not be, from my understanding, one of the UCD modules that have the trickle down Ncore tech in it.
However, I am sure that it will be a killer Amp at that price, what with Hypex and PS Audios front end.
He hopes for a "July" (most likely August) release. |
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Noble100: As far as I know up till now there is no Ncore700, a UCD700 yes. There are only two Ncore at this time, the DIY NC400 and the OEM NC1200. At times you state there is no NCore 700 and at others you mention a Ncore 700 in the above post.
The Ncore NC1200 is designed to allow an OEM the option to use their own "input stage". There are many items that have been misconstrued on many of the forums.
Also the power modules have similar designations but can be amp specific. |
