How much does rock-solid speed stability cost?

If you have such sensitive ears you might need to spend a lot of money for something like a VPI with flywheel (around $6K). The upper end Technics are really good but their power supplies are not very stable and Technics stopped making the replacement chipsets. KAB electroacoustics makes a beefy outboard power supply for the 1200 which I intend to get in the next few months:

SL-1200 power supply

There is the possibility that you have a lot of electrical noise and (perhaps) voltage fluctuations in your listening room. Even a quartz lock mechanism has to fight the noise background in order to regulate speed and is taxing on the system's performance. There was a really good discussion on the subject of TT power supplies and their effect on the music:

Turntable Power Source Benefits

I think that in your budget range the Technics 1200 w/ the outboard power supply is as good as it gets. Otherwise get ready to spend a lot more (perhaps a Teres will please you). I recently listened to a friend's system that has an Oracle fed by a Hewlett Packard laboratory grade power supply and although good, clean and musical sounding, it did not have the pace and the steadiness of my modded 1200.

The 1200 has close to perfect pitch stability--that's why is preferred by a lot of musicians that use "inferior stereo systems". I really like how it flawlessly keeps the beat of complex rhythm patterns of *salsa* music. Most belt drives don't cut it in this department. Something's not right here...

You could be mistaking eccentricity for pitch, as someone else pointed out. Nakamichi used to make a TT that adjusted the record's spindle so that it would play concentric. Perhaps it should be on your short list. Get back to us and send us some pictures!

I always tought that a brush attached to any cartridge had to have some deleterious effects...

I knew the 1200 couldn't be at fault unless it was defective. The issue of speed/rotational stability to me is sooo important--you guys see me posting it over and over and over.

Yesterday I oiled my 1200 and the audible improvement was nothing short of stunning! The manual states every 2000 hrs, and I've had the TT working for 1-1/2 years (put away for the last six months). There's no way I could have played 3,000 records on both sides, but I saw a post in the Asylum stating that oiling should be done every year, so I went ahead and used 3 in 1 (with Kevin's approval). WOW! I was playing a salsa record which I know very well and the before and after was stunning!!! The bass was fuller and tighter, the percussion was snappy and with a very fast attack (especially the timbales!), the voices were sharp and well defined; sibilinace was softer. The soundstage became bigger and overall, the music was more penetrating and intense. Member Jahaira had told me a few weeks ago that he oiled his platter and the servo arm in his JVC TT and had a similar experience.

The way I look at it is that there was still oil in the bottom of the spindle, but that oiling the bronze bushing damped the rotation, providing a smoother operation, less noise and less speed correction from the Quartz lock drive. I also noticed that female voices were getting raspier towards the end of records and Kevin had suggested me I coud have damaged my modded Groovemaster by using it the first week @ 2g tracking weight. Not so. Now the voices and the overall presentation are smoother and extended.

Nighthawk, my suggestion is to get rid of the Type V damper and get yourself the KAB tonearm fluid damper. Zaikesman wrote a review and he's using a Benz Glider MC with his 1200:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?raccs&1033259530&read&3&4&

This issue of the platter providing the time domain is really important. The belt drive crowd doesn't seem to get it. I've gone through all these efforts of modding the 1200 because there is simply no TT around it that can deliver the needed speed/rotational stability. After this experience with oiling the bearing I truly believe the 1200's outboard power supply is going to be a very welcome addition to my system.

Just wondering, is there anything out (current production model) in between the Rockport and the Technics 1200?

Tom, there is no physical contact in the 1200's platter, except for the spindle. The magnet is part of the underside of the plater. The chassis is non resonant and made up of three components: molded rubber base, a composite midsection and an aluminum top. You can see the diagram in http://www.kabusa.com. The creature is pretty well designed and borrows technology developed for the SP-10 series. It would take a high end company millions to develop such technology from the ground up. The mods take it into full high end operating mode.

The other day I was at Lak's and we were talking about TTs (you know he wants to get one). He said he heard the Teres at the Midwest Audio Fest and that it sounded good to his ears. That he's also heard mine with an entirely different system and acoustic scenarios but that it also sounded good to his ears. Lak would love to hear a fully modded 1200 next to a Teres to really find out how they sound--even if that means a trip to Appalachia.

If belt drives are so fantastic, I wonder why record cutting lathes were either DD or rim drive--even for the Audiophile labels...

In the 'real world', the 1200 is the world's best selling TT. Why? because it can be used for DJ'ing, broadcasting, record libraries, archivists, audiophiles, etc. It is easy to set up, low maintenance, built like a small tank yet very precise, has high torque (1/3 rev start) and an electric brake. Truth is it takes a lot of money to make a belt drive work right, with all its inherent limitations. Most people are not chronic audiophiles and in reality, how many people can afford such things? I have a group of friends who, like me, have worked in A/V stores, record stores, are musicians, started playing with stereos in high school, etc. Of all of them I am the one who is really into audio and the one with the most sophisticated system (wish I could say that of my record collection). Even though I'm buying used, demo and price point gear, my system is approaching $7-8K. This has to end--soon. I need to move on.

Because of its inherent strengths, Kevin has gone through the trouble of developing the 1200 mods. He wants as many people to have high end performance on a budget. I still don't know how far the full mods will take it, but I'm willing to drive 3 1/2 hours each way to take my 1200 to be rewired by Ridge Street Audio. Next will be the outboard power supply.

Tom, there is one of the facilitators in Audiocircle with a Teres. He lives a couple hours from me. It's sad you don't want to meet us. Lak has three dogs and they all like me...