How much do I need to spend to get a preamp that sounds better than no preamp?


Hello all.
I'm using an Audible Illusions L1 preamp and I think my system sounds better when I remove it from the signal path. Oppo BD105 directly to SMC Audio DNA1 Gold power amp. I have read that there is level of quality you need to hit before there will be an improvement in sound. I can't seem to find what that level is. Any ideas?
Thanks in advance,
Ben
honashagen

Showing 16 responses by mrdecibel

" Like so many things he's designed, it's a quirky component with a  narrow appeal ". I honestly cannot believe this has been said. NP has shared with the diy community most of his designs, which were all labors of love, not to make a dime. Give me, and everyone else a break !
kosst, he has many followers......geez,,,you are one of them. He never designed a product where someone could not use it. He caters to a wide variety of listeners, which is interesting because he almost designs for himself, going after his holy grail in design. As I see it, to listeners wanting the virtues of tubes, but want solid state, and has accomplished that. You just seem to be making fun of him and not giving the man any credit. Who is bigger than he in the diy world, and so generous with his knowledge. This is how I see it. 
kosst, when you design and implement the manufacture of an amp that is competitive with FW, maybe, and only then, maybe, will I ever take what you say seriously and worthwhile to read. So, like many other posts of yours on various threads, keep convincing yourself of how smart and wonderful you are. Enjoy ! MrD
kosst. correct, I cannot read a schematic. However, I have trust in my listening abilities, and this far outweighs any scientific hoopla " in my quest " for better sound. You are just plain ignorant, and I have NO RESPECT for you. In fact, I still find you laughable with all of the argumentative outbursts you continue to belt out here, trying to prove something. As george said, " go away ". There are many people here who are scientific, and I enjoy their responses, but the stance you seem to take is always childish. You take the fun out of this hobby. I cannot imagine you sitting in your listening chair, enjoying your music, as it seems all of your leisure time is spent here ranting. I get a good hour or so, daily, enjoying my listening sessions. So, Enjoy ! MrD.
@georgehifi , kosst claims his system sounds almost the same, with and without the preamp section of his ancient Marantz receiver, when he experimented with the bypassing of the Marantz. This should tell you something about him. Let him be, let him rant, he is an annoyance to many people. He just needs to be right, that is all. No wonder he is afraid to try an upgraded power cord, as he fears he will not hear a difference, let alone an improvement. I must admit that I do enjoy the 2 of you going at it, as it is very comedic. I wake up every day and wonder who is kosst fighting with today, and yes, there he is. Look at the recent Focal thread. Hilarious. BTW, I am wondering if the F5 that kosst built would pass UL certification, which Nelson’s does.? Enjoy ! MrD.
kosst, believe me when I say I am not going ape. As I said, I find your argumentative nature annoying, but amusing, and actually look forward to your next " outburst ". I cannot speak for George.  Enjoy ! MrD.
Since the topic is really about " gain ", let me say this. I have a large assortment of amplifiers, included a few pro amps, which all have input gain controls. Using these amplifiers, I have a choice, of keeping the controls on the amps at max, and using the preamp ( s ) volume controls at a lower setting, at about 9 - 10 o’clock. However I find I prefer the sound of the system with the amps controls turned down, to the point where the preamp ( s ) volume control is at about 12 - 1 o’clock. I have tried going from source to amps, and while it is clean ( possibly a little cleaner ) without the preamp, with the preamp ( s ), the drive, dynamics, well, pretty much everything, is better to me through the preamp ( s ). Enjoy ! MrD.
@mitch2 I have owned a few pieces of Steve’s equipment, including his original line drive unit ( which I understand was not buffered ). I still always preferred a preamp. Maybe I should try a device as you are suggesting. BTW, I always read your commentary ( which is again why I questioned the receiver / integrated amp thing a while ago on that thread ). I do not claim to be the smartest guy with this technical jargon as many of you seem to be, but I do have an understanding of much of it. I am, and have been, an audio guru to many, with my many years in this hobby, including professionally, and the ability and experience to use and trust my ears ( and thankfully, they are still working in my mid 60s ), and that is what I go by. Thank you, Enjoy ! MrD.
The chassis seems to be used for several pieces of equipment, including amplification, so maybe it is economical ? I like the looks of the heatsinks. @georgehifi I might be ready to try an LDR unit, so what do you think ? Enjoy ! MrD.
George , I tried to PM you, w/o success. If you could PM me, that would be great. I have had a few passives, but none were exceptional. The particular room and system I would be using it in would be : CD, mostly redbook, modified Sony SACD player, into a modified Adcom GDA 700 D/A converter, into a Nuforce STA 200 amp. I might use my modified Klipsch Lascalas, but have a pair of modified Heresy IIs, with some subs. I believe the Adcom into the Nuforce would be " ideal " together. Enjoy, MrD.
I believe what Nelson Pass is indicating, is that with many sources, and in a perfect world ( system match ), passive would be ideal. However, he knows, as most of do, the perfect world does not exist. Just my interpretation of all my readings. Enjoy ! MrD.
To George and all. I have been listening to my Luminous Audio Axiom II with Walker mod, single ended 3 in 2 out, with remote, for a week now, and I have to say, I am connecting with the musicians, as well as the mixing and mastering engineers who have worked on the recordings, like never before. A veil has been lifted, the colorations are gone, and nothing is missing from using my 2 expensive preamps ( will not mention what they are ). I am feeling lucky ( punk ), that the synergy is working for me, and quite happy I made the move. The background is dead quiet, as there is absolutely no noise, hiss, hum ( etc. ) in my system. Thank you George for steering me in this direction, as I always thought an active preamp ( with gain ) was absolutely necessary( and I have been at this for 50 or so years ). Of course, experimenting with my pro amplifiers, with their built in volume attenuators, allowed me to hear this as well, but now I can use my favorite little amplifier, which I could not, successfully, use before. Cheers ! Enjoy ! MrD.