How do the Merlin TSM compare to other speakers


I have read many great reviews of the TSM-MM/MX but have not seen much discussion as how they rate against other top class monitors or small floor standing speakers.

Thinking of speakers such as the micro utopia be, audio physic tempo, Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor, Dynaudio Special 25 etc.

Cheers
sargon2003
I tested against my pair of sonus faber guarniere and the merlin tsm mm was better. Next saturday we are going to test against B&W 805.
George,
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Thanks for the comparison. Did you compare the Guarneri and the Merlin's in the same system at the same time using the same music ?
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What differences did you hear ?
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Thanks,
Larry
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I also have had the TSM and SF Guarneri at one session at my system...I went for the SF...the TSN is more "rock music" speaker, the Guarneri is very refined musical one. Watch for the hight you are sitting at with both of these speakers, your ears have to be at the tweeter level!!!
Regards
Libor
you must have had an older tsm and not the mm or mx to have said what you said.
b
Helo Larry
I used the the merlins and sonus faber guarniere first with JR concentra I and the cable were Kimber kselect 3033 with merlins and I used nordost red down with SF guarniere( I used before both cables in each speaker and these combinations were the best) the cdplayer was meridian 508.24 + madrigal gzel interconecter. after tis I changed to aplifier to gamut d200 mk3 + bat vk5i ( interconecters )siltech, I and more 3 friends arived the same impresion- the merlins were more fast and better. but I think that for violin and cello , the SF guarniere were better because the sound was more slow and the timbre were more natural.

george
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George,
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Thanks for your response. I was not clear from what you said if you listened to the Merlin's vs the Guarneri on exactly the same equipment set up for each at the same time. Please clarify.
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Please do let us know about the comparison of the Merlin's vs the B & W 805's.
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Thanks,
Larry
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george,
i think you should try some different tube amps (like the one i sent you the brochure on) and wires like the cardas i told you about. this will change the timbre more like the sf but still retain the uniformity, speed and clarity of the merlin. the merlin is just telling you what the rest of your system sounds like.

b
and george the things like the siltech and the meridian sound better on the sf because they are lighter and leaner. this goes better with the character of the sf. you need to try things that sound better on the tsm to get the true picture of the comparison. things like au24 wire or cardas golden ref will make you understand because they sound like the tsm.
b
Bob,
i think your speaker also sound good with harmonix speaker cable.the tone is so sweet.i am more than happy to send the cable to you and wait for your opion.
duke
yesterday we heard merlin X B&W 805, we use concentra I + meridian 508.24 + madrigal gzel interconect and Kimber select 3033- The result to me and 2 friends - merlin is better in all aspects, but the best is on bass(more tigh) and clarity, and soundstage. There are 2 friends that I could not ask yet their judgment.But but interesting is that after all we tested B&W 804, and the 805 ws better than this speaker that cost $3000 more(in Brazil). Bob in the future I wil buy audicence au24 interconecter and speaker cable to try with merlin, but I will send you a email about tubes amplifiers and some doubts about.
thanks for your advices.
ok, but understand that the merlin tsm is a more damped design so it has a higher q. this means you want to use the speaker with an amp with a lower damping factor or higher output impedance. tubes on the merlin will make them sound their best just like all of the high resolution/uniform speakers of today.
did i send you an amplifier recommendation by e-mail?
b
Bobbyapalkovic Wrote:
"understand that the merlin tsm is a more damped design so it has a higher q"

Bobby,

I thought the higher the Q the lower the damping ie. the oscillation takes longer to die out. As it pertains to roll off characteristics (as in a low pass transfer function of any order filter) a Q of 0.707 is criticaly damped whereas a lower number denotes an overdamped condition and a higher number an uderdamped condition. Could you please clarify?
in terms of bass alignment/cabinet construction the q of .7 is neutral, i agree with you. i was trying to make the point that our designs are more damped electrically and mechanically so one should pay attention to the damping factor and output impedance of the matching amp. sorry for the confusion, i am not 100% with it because of a loss in the family.
b
My most sincere condolences on your loss.
Bobby, I think I speak for everyone when I say you are a true friend to us here, and we also mourn your loss.

For what it's worth, instead of always being here to offer your help, please, once in a while, accept ours. We're here for you, make use of it...
Joe
thank you all, lost my father in law who has been like a father to me for the last 20 years. my wife and i spent the last 6 1/2 months trying to get him strong again but he just wasn't able to make it through this time.
b
Sorry to hear about your loss, Bobby. Hope that your wife & you find the strength to cope with it.

I'm not a Merlin owner but I feel that I own a speaker that has a similar signature to the Merlin & possibly uses the same or similar tweeter.

With a high Q speaker, a high damping factor power amp is not needed - I can see this. However, why does it hurt to have a high damping factor power amp driving the Merlins? Electrically, the lower the o/p impedance of a voltage source (power amp) the better (as it tends towards ideal). The lower the sum of amp o/p impedance + speaker wire impedance, the better the bass response should be.
or so you'd think but i have found that multiples of output tubes while reducing the output impedance tends to damp the bass more so. i prefer the tonality and presentation of amps with fewer output tubes and higher output impedances. control and tonal balance are two very different things and on a speaker like the vsm you can hear the difference very easily.

bombaywalla, thank you and thanks to the rest of you too.
b
Bobby

Truely sorry about your father in law.

Can you please explain the above in terms of ss output amps.What would the optimal damping factor be from a ss amp as a match for Merlin ? Would that differ from the TSM and VSMs ? Would that also differ between the MM and MX models ?

Chris
the tsm is less damped than the vsm and the mm version of each is less damped than the mx version of each.
as far as a specific damping factor that is most ideal, that is impossible to say because i have heard amps with low damping factors that are tonally challanged and over damped in the bass and other amps with high damping facors that sound lush, relaxed and complete. go figure. sorry chris but i can't give you the magic equation, wish i could but i can't.
all i can tell you is that i think that a speaker should control the noise, distortion and color so when you turn up the volume you you get louder music and not an increased level of the items mentioned earlier. damped speakers are a good thing imho and all we need to do is find a relaxed complete sounding amp to make them work their best.
b
Ach! Intuitively I can see (perhaps) what might be going on: high Q speaker + high damping factor power amp => too much of a good thing in that the amp is great at controlling the woofer that has already been damped by the speaker cabinet. So, I can see how this reduces the bass - the woofer excursion is curtailed very quickly by the low impedance of the amp.
By having a higher o/p impedance in the power amp, only the speaker cabinet controls the woofer excursion as the power amp is "sloppier" in this dept.

No wonder then that the Berning ZH270 sounds best w/ the Merlins w/ its feedback at the "low" setting, which creates a higher o/p impedance & a lower damping factor vs. the other 2 settings.
I am listening for the first time a new pair of TSM-MM that my friend Bernie (Canadian A) just purchased. I have a pair of Reference 3A De Capo I in my system that I have owned for 10 months. I am using Atma-Sphere M60s and MP-3 pre amp.
Let me tell you that I am shocked at how much more cohesive the TSM are over the 3A's. They are more open, and musical. They make my toes start to tap.
I have them for two more days before Bernie gets over shift work, but I can tell you now that I will be looking to purchase a pair of VSM soon as I can but some funds together. I hate this hobby!!!! I though I was finished upgrading. Bobby you have messed me up
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Bryamp,
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Do the new TSM have over 200 hours of normal listening volume on them yet ? If not, just wait till you hear them with 200, 300 or more and you will be more suprised.
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Also consider saving a bit more and getting the MX version with BAM. Do that and you will be set speakwerwise for the rest of your audiolife (unless Bobby comes up with something radically better....probably will).
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Rgds,
Larry
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nothing planned but just revamped the bam. the new super bam is really a big improvement. i think as much as another 25 or 30% to the whole system.
price had to go up slightly because it cost us 33% more to build.
b
Bobby,

I, too, am sorry to hear that your father-in-law passed away. It has been a difficult road that you, your wife and her dad have traveled since the day of that car accident.

So…when are these “super BAMs” being shipped out? :)

David
a few are on their way now and more coming right after that so VERY soon.
b