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Hi-Fi Fuses - SNAKE OIL? - or something in it?

There's a lot of chatter about the benefits of those high prices gold plated fuses with silver conductor etc. etc. all over the web and the consensus ranges from FANTASTIC!!! to much more subtle observations.

It makes sense to me, epseically in light of spending lots of $$$ on good power cables, that having a skinny piece of aluminum conductor in a glass tube (i.e. a cheap fuse), in the power loop would be detrimental to the performance of the components.

I decided to revamp my DIY power supply I'd built for the Cambridge Audio 640p phono stage and DACmagic in order to test this out - and since it's a DIY project there is no UL Certification to void.

First, I bypassed the fuse link completely to confirm there would be an improvement and give me the best benchmark to compare against - YEP - BIG DIFFERENCE - much more this, that and the other :-)

So then I started looking for hi-fi fuses - WOW!!! - talk about pricey.

Two fuses for the power supply was going to cost $120+ AND I thought I'd probably have to buy a better quality fuse block to make the most of those fuses.

Then a moment of enlightenment - most power supplies and conditioners are protected by pushbutton breakers and not fuses.

I found breakers of the required current rating and installed them into the power supply. I imediately noticed that there was no deteriation in fidelity when compared to the same unit with the fuse link bypassed - GREAT!.

On reflection, the fuses I had in place were rated at 3 amps - so they use a pretty thin fuse wire in them. If I had used a fuse of a higher rating, i.e. it uses a thicker conductor, then I believe that there would be less of a difference between the fused and bypassed implementations

SO - do the expensive fuses work?

Well the empirical evidence out there would suggest they do
- I do know the cheap fuses are not good!

I know bypassing them does improve the sound - a lot in my case
- BUT THAT'S NOT SAFE FOR ONGOING USE

I know breakers work as good as bypassing the fuse
- BUT MESSING WITH A POWER SUPPLY VOIDS UL CERTIFICATION - NOT GOOD!
- FYI a couple of licensed technicians I know WILL NOT change the design of a power supply at all.

I believe the amount of benefit is related to the fuse rating
- but don't go replacing 3 amp fuses with a 20 amp fuse - that's not safe either.

Whilst looking for fuses I discovered AMR Gold fuses priced at $20/fuse.

Now that's definately more affordable than most others at 3-4 times their price.

One supplier I know of in the US is Avatar Aacoustics

If you have had experience with quality fuses please share - especially if they are "modestly priced" i.e. $20-$30 per fuse. And please provide a source :-)

Also, can anypne confirm that Slow blow fuses are better than regular?

And Remember - IF YOU AIN'T LICENCED - GET A TECHNICIAN!

Many Thanks
williewonka

Showing 8 responses by williewonka

williewonka OP
3,070 posts
 
Jfrech - breakers also come in a variety of prices...
- thermal $10-30
- thermal/magnetic $40+++

I choose a name brand thermal for $15, because the market is flooded with the "not-so-good product" from - guess where :-)

The nice thing about breakers
- fix the problem that tripped it, then press button to reset
- not - pay another $??? to "Company X"

Unfortunately, fuses are still the cheapest manufacturing solution - so its unlikely breakers will be adopted in components any time soon.

I'm pretty sure good fuses are used throughout the industry, after all, company's like McIntosh have reputations to protect.

The problem is, if a fuse should blow due to a power surge or some other anomaly - what do you replace it with?

The hi-fi fuses offer a good timely solution - until the replacements from the manufacturer arrive :-)

However, if you are into creating your own DIY products, then a breaker is a viable alternative to the fuse that will not degrade the performance.
williewonka OP
3,070 posts
 
Jmcgrogan2 - thanks for the kind words - I aim to amuse - sometimes :-)

Didn't want to get into "the fog clearing" or "my ears going through a miraculous transition!" and my all time favourite "the veil has been lifted" - I gotta try wearing that veil someday:-)

Maybe I've created another "hi-fi hyperbole" I can hear it now...

the component exhibited a certain this and that, and lots of the other - highly recommended.

WOW- already used in Levy03's post - thanks for that :-)

A sense of humour keeps us sane, especially in this "hobby" :-)

Keep on truckin'
williewonka OP
3,070 posts
 
Mapman...
My only question would be why is it that a more expensive fuse is needed to do better over what you started with? There may be some other very well constructed generall purpose fuses available that are NOT marketed to audiophiles that might also do a better job

You are absolutely correct - my problem was , looking at a little glass tube with caps on the end, how does one know if it will do better? - how many brands at $10/fuse does one try?

I went with breakers as an experiment to see if it would perform well - they did - so I thought I'd post my findings ( more for the DIYers out there) and at the same time request others feedback on their experience with fuses.

If you know of a $10 fuse you've has success with, that performs well, please post the brand here - I know I, and all the other members would appreciate having this info.

I for one would much rather spend $10/ fuse over $20/fuse - providing it performs well.

Many thanks.
williewonka OP
3,070 posts
 
Krell_man and Roxy54 - I have also found that good outlets make for MUCH better performance!

I use Pass and Seymour MRI grade outlets at $26/outlet - used for ancillary equipment in MRI installations

I don't know how they compare with the Afterburner, but they grip like a vice and use very high quality non-ferrous materials.

Don't think they want the MRI ripping the things out of the wall due to impurities :-)

They work extremely well!

So many products - so little cash/time :-)
williewonka OP
3,070 posts
 
Mapman - Interesting - but it appears you need lots of them - speakers, fuses, caps, power supply...

It would cost a fortune to cover a complete system.

I also think the amount of improvement is relative to the quality of the components you are using, since it appears that the chips enhance electron flow. If you use high quality components and cables this is already at a premium, but improvements may still be attainable.

My own experience with upgrading cables on more budget components (i.e. a considerable improvement in fidelity), would suggest to me that using these chips on them might yield similar improvements.

However, I prefer to trust in good old physics, so right now, until the science is explained, I'll give it a pass :-)
williewonka OP
3,070 posts
 
Lacee - fortunately you now post on a forum where sniping at a person's post is "minimal" - but there is always someone that has a "Humble Opinion" to express :-)

To question someones findings to me seems moot - after all, it's - your system - your room. Unless that is duplicated down to the fabrics on the sofa and pictures on the wall there is no way they can doubt the effect of your particular tweak or upgrade.

The other factor many seem to forget is - it's also your ears!

e.g.
I have omni-directional ears - put me in a room full of people and I have a hard time following a conversation 3ft away, but I can hear a cellphone vibrating on the hallway table when I'm upstairs.

My wife on the other hand has uni-directional hearing and can follow a conversation in a crowded restaurant three tables away - and can tune into any conversation within that radius - as long as her head is pointed in that direction - but she can't hear her cell phone vibrate 3 ft away if it's behind her.

This has a direct impact on how a person is able to perceive sound and detect subtle changes in that sound.

I also find that trying to prove something is often pointless. Mainly because if a person chooses not to believe your findings, trying to convince them otherwise may require lots of my time - and I have music to listen to :-)

Therefore, I simply post my findings and let them do the legwork if they choose - or not. That way I stay sane.

There are many "claims" on Agon that I personally believe may be snake oil, because they make no sense to me, i.e. they are not attributable to physics as I understand it, but I have no doubt the poster of those tidbits truly did witness some effect.

So, keep posting your findings for those that are open minded and ignore the rest.

Discoveries are sometimes ahead of their time - after all, at one time the sun went around the earth and the earth was flat!

:-)
williewonka OP
3,070 posts
 
Lacee....

For all the avid snake oilers of the new inquisition, I have seldom seen any mention of what products to stay away from.
What companies to avoid.

And most importantly what products "they have tried"that proved to be snake oil.

First, there is a little thing called libel
- it's easy for a company to extol the virtues of their product, even without "proof" (many do), but much harder for someone to refute their claims. Word of mouth is one thing, putting it in writing on a forum - whole different kettle of fish!

Second - if people were to report their failures this forum would be immense
- and very tough to seperate wheat from chaff :-)

Third, people just may not wnat anyone to know about their failures.
- in fear of the rebukes they "might" receive in return.

As you well know - the effectiveness of a component/cable/tweak/etc is relative to the system/components it was "auditioned with".

My atrategy in considering reported products is to do some "due diligence" and revue the system the poster is using (if available) in order to understand why the claim might be valid.

After all a $30,000 speaker cable might not prove "as effective" if I have a $20 interconnect from the phono stage to the amp.

Conversly - nay-sayers should understand that a $30,000 speaker cable on a $200k system might just be the cat's meow! Just pop into your local Audiophile Store for a test drive :-)

From that perspective, I prefer to see reports only on the positive, then I can extrapolate from only those experiences together with available data.

So, we are left with an imperfect, but workable method of communicating our findings.

Without forums like this the thousands of products and a vast wealth of knowledge pertaining to this hobby would be lost to the majority of us

Your words are not lost on the readers - I'm sure they resonate with many, and there's always someone willing to challenge :-)

You keep on posting - we'll keep on reading:-)
williewonka OP
3,070 posts
 
One last thing I forgot in the above post

If a reader is considering a product and cannot find it in a search on Agon - post a question about it - you almost always get some feedback - good or bad :-)
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