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Hi-Fi Fuses - SNAKE OIL? - or something in it?

There's a lot of chatter about the benefits of those high prices gold plated fuses with silver conductor etc. etc. all over the web and the consensus ranges from FANTASTIC!!! to much more subtle observations.

It makes sense to me, epseically in light of spending lots of $$$ on good power cables, that having a skinny piece of aluminum conductor in a glass tube (i.e. a cheap fuse), in the power loop would be detrimental to the performance of the components.

I decided to revamp my DIY power supply I'd built for the Cambridge Audio 640p phono stage and DACmagic in order to test this out - and since it's a DIY project there is no UL Certification to void.

First, I bypassed the fuse link completely to confirm there would be an improvement and give me the best benchmark to compare against - YEP - BIG DIFFERENCE - much more this, that and the other :-)

So then I started looking for hi-fi fuses - WOW!!! - talk about pricey.

Two fuses for the power supply was going to cost $120+ AND I thought I'd probably have to buy a better quality fuse block to make the most of those fuses.

Then a moment of enlightenment - most power supplies and conditioners are protected by pushbutton breakers and not fuses.

I found breakers of the required current rating and installed them into the power supply. I imediately noticed that there was no deteriation in fidelity when compared to the same unit with the fuse link bypassed - GREAT!.

On reflection, the fuses I had in place were rated at 3 amps - so they use a pretty thin fuse wire in them. If I had used a fuse of a higher rating, i.e. it uses a thicker conductor, then I believe that there would be less of a difference between the fused and bypassed implementations

SO - do the expensive fuses work?

Well the empirical evidence out there would suggest they do
- I do know the cheap fuses are not good!

I know bypassing them does improve the sound - a lot in my case
- BUT THAT'S NOT SAFE FOR ONGOING USE

I know breakers work as good as bypassing the fuse
- BUT MESSING WITH A POWER SUPPLY VOIDS UL CERTIFICATION - NOT GOOD!
- FYI a couple of licensed technicians I know WILL NOT change the design of a power supply at all.

I believe the amount of benefit is related to the fuse rating
- but don't go replacing 3 amp fuses with a 20 amp fuse - that's not safe either.

Whilst looking for fuses I discovered AMR Gold fuses priced at $20/fuse.

Now that's definately more affordable than most others at 3-4 times their price.

One supplier I know of in the US is Avatar Aacoustics

If you have had experience with quality fuses please share - especially if they are "modestly priced" i.e. $20-$30 per fuse. And please provide a source :-)

Also, can anypne confirm that Slow blow fuses are better than regular?

And Remember - IF YOU AIN'T LICENCED - GET A TECHNICIAN!

Many Thanks
williewonka

Showing 9 responses by gvasale

gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
The next thing you know, there will be discussion of on which day of the week or hour of the day provides the best electrons & if they sounded great today, can you have the same ones back for tomorrow. Or maybe someone will start selling canned electrons like the canned air in the movie Spaceballs.
gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
I'm allowed to stay up as long as I see fit :)

My present fuses are well broken in...having been used & never replaced since they were new, pre 1973. I know you didn't ask about that. Surley, can't be of high quality having lasted that long...

My old Marantz gear probably doesn't have the sensitivity to be able to show any significant difference when played on my Altec speakers.

I am amused quite frequently by the hysteria one can infer from the intense subltlties often in discussion on this board, but I do come here to learn as well.

Once in a while, no, more than that, there are really things that aren't in the twilight zone of this hobby.

One thread on this board simply said "it's about the music."

Is eqipment the end or the means to the music?

My hearing hasn't been tested in probably 4 years or less, and my report always says it is normal for a person of my age (64) and I hope because I'm 64 doesn't mean that I'm no longer capable of enjoying this hobby.

I don't have any insecurities, an axe to grind, nor lust for an I-phone.

There are just some things to me which truly seem like snake oil & this is one more of them.

The next thing will be "audiophile" service entry cable, "audiophile" main & branch breakers, etc., etc. I alreacy know there are "audiophile" wall outlets & interconnecting cables & connectors.

"Audiophile" q-tips & "audiophile" earwax removal aids.

Can anyone tell me where the weakest link is?

Charles Rodrigues was on to something.

Who sells "audiophile" fuses?

Without malice, I appreciate your reply...I hope you appreciate my skepticizm.

gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
Hmmm...In my case, I really don't know what speakers with 100db sensitivity might be able to "mask." I readily agree they don't perform flat out to 20khz for sure. They will sound different than others, I agree. But no two speakers sound alike for the most part. Shouldn't better speakers tend to sound the same, if 100% accuracy is the goal?
gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
Thanks...however, in the years I've had my ears in this, the "experts" always said that the goal was to have the sound that was as close to undistinguishable as possible to the original. Sterile, harsh, not warm & cuddly suggest to me they have'nt achieved the goal.

On a slightly different drift, I my memory is correct, when AR did their live vs. "memorex" auditions, they were pretty successful in this endeavor & at one time held a massive share of the loudspeaker market.

When they did their testing they actually buried their boxes
level to the surface of an outdoor field & did their measurements. The object was that there would be no room influence. Alternatively, very few others used anechoic chambers. These two things make me wonder about all the small baffles where the sound is not being projected away from the speaker & if there might be some "hocus-pocus" with some speakers which "can't be placed against a wall."

Not likely I'm ever going to replace what I own, though, but
I really do enjoy the music & enjoy the reading here & at other sites.

Eyeglasses...bad comparason. I can't stand either dirty glasses or polycarbonate lenses. I don't care if glass is heavier, I can see the difference. Give me glass.
gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
Lacee: Not all designs lend themselves to that kind of modification. From power cords to internal wiring.

I still think its a stretch that a fuse, now as simple as it is could be such an object of desire, so to speak. At some time, I'll just let that go.

If the gear priced in the statosphere (today's reality) has been built with a cost is no object way, it still seems kind of odd that someone might still find shortcomings (non "audiophile" fuses). No one has mentioned if any products such as that actually have gold cryo treated fuses, fuse holders etc. Aren't many or most of these "mods" driven by the aftermarket?

Certainly, my particular stuff would suffer greatly from such changes. But that's neither here nor there...If, for example the power cord on my 7T can handle 1100 watts, that is 9 amps, & the tested load as I use it, averages 1.5 amps or less, how much more overcapacity might one need for something to show up? It is also fused @ 1/8 amp. & comsumes 9 watts. And, let's not for purpose of those questions, consider audio performance as subjectively as some do here.
gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
Neither arrogant nor presumptuous, but why then aren't such outstanding cables/fuses part of the OEM kit? Surley the ultimate amplifier maker would want to scrimp here & there so some other company could pick up what should be his domain? I'm certainly skeptical. I don't know which is easier...to prove they are an improvement or to prove they're not.
gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
For now, what does one need to do in order to take advantage of such a marvelous power cord when all (my assumption) amplifiers don't have detachable power cords?

This means you have to "tear" into the chassis & start replacing the leads up to the fuse holder? Then what happens...if on the other side of the fuse holder the type of wire to the the transformer turns out to be "substandard." Is the next order of the day to throw out that transformer & have a custom built one made to replace the OEM? If there was a chance that the unit came with a detachable cord like computers use, what would happen if that socket was "found" to be "substandard." What would be next? I'd like to know what gage of internal wire is used to build all these suprelatively performing electronics VS the "also ran" units.
gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
Lacee: Thanks for the continuing discussion. The 7T back panel has no room for such a power cable change as "like a computer." I could drill out the opening where the stock power cord enters, but enlarge it to what size? One with a 20 amp capacity? or 30?...therefore the question. The power amplifiers are somewhat compact & also have no room based on layout. They have a compact inner structure with horizonatal & vertical aspects to their assembly. I could put new electrolytics in there, but the cost of them is huge.
Something like $300.00 each from what a quick web search indicated, and I'm not in a position of spend $2400.00 on the eight capacitors. If you would like, I sure there are photos of the 7T & 16 on the internet...you might get a better idea of my point of view.

WRT, could any improvements be made? I suppose so, but to me my first watt or first few watts are very pleasing to me.

As I mentioned before, at what are normal(for me) listening levels, power consumption is very low, total power consumption in the order of 150 watts or less and a voltage across 8 ohms is usually less than 2 volts.

Additionally, there is no possibility that I could ever experiment say, switching between SETs (would need 4)because the current setup is also biamplified. One would need an extensive, expensive switching setup for a task like that. One could never otherwise accurately AB test. While I hear people rave about SET apms I have not experienced one yet.

I suspect the experience might not make it to my bucket list.

But for me the question still if the monumental cost which you say you have expended would be beneficial to me.

That is way out of my price range. Thanks for your input.

BTW, years ago I did hear what was probably the "best" speaker of its day which were KLH 9s. Right where I worked, 2 pairs not 1 pair. They were pretty impressive. Then there were the Dayton Wright gas filled electrostatics which were also impressive. Neither would be suitable for SET use as I understand. These were in a shop (retail) setting, not in a well plotted out room.

gvasale's avatar
gvasale
99 posts
 
Faraday cages are somewhat difficult to fully implement & can be unsightly, However, I once had a customer which because of lack of space needed to put one component of top of another & I used some aluminum foil to reduce hum.

Many solid state electronic devices are totaly enclosed in metal or have metal screened openings for ventilation. Not quite as necessary for analog as for digital devices unless you live in a metro area with either a radio station or some large computer installation close by. Digital devices tend to radiate elcetronic noise as opposed to analog unless you're talking tv. I don't even notice too much noise from the oscillators in am radio.
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