@suavek, Through its USB port (but not through its s/pdif) it will support 384K 24/32 bit PCM files. That should cover DXD files, though I have never tried a DXD file myself. See the users manual and complete specs at: http://www.mu-sound.com/files/MH-DA004.pdf |
Anyone?
It’s a new DAC with two mono ESS9038pro DAC chips in parallel (said to be equivalent to 32 9028 DAC channels in parallel).and with fully discrete output stages....no op amps.
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Thanks, but if it is what you say, why mod? What is the nature of your mod?
I'm near to pulling the trigger. Anything I need to know? |
I finally ordered a unit myself, and am very happy I did. The consensus over at Head-Fi where they are ordinarily into mods (even on earlier LKS models), is that this unit doesn’t need any, though I’m certian Ric will want to touch it up here or there. Given the number and quality of the components it should perform, and it does. There’s nothing like it currently available: 2 ESS 9038pro dacs and all discrete components. Who can estimate what this would cost with a fancy name plate on it? I’m not a reviewer so not a ton of comparisons but it completely transforms the sound of CDs coming out of my Oppo 105 through spdif.
There is no sheet metal on this unit; it’s built like a brick, large and heavy--it has two massive torroidal transformers. Very large heat sinks. No sheet metal at all. It sounds great even after running it only for 24 hours. Was a bit dark at first turn on. Very smooth, VERY dynamic, unbelievable (to me) control of the bass, and the spacial aspects are spectacular-wall to wall. I’ve just played a couple of classical CDs. Many, many steps above the Oppo. No surprise given its insides, but it feels good to confirm. The last time I had this feeling is when I replaced a pretty good transistor phono pre with a very good all tube unit. Not that the sound is the same, but the quality is there. There’ll be more breaking in and I’ll start trying some higher resolution files.
This is really fun. |
There’s no way you can judge a DAC of this quality through a youtube video. Good luck finding comparisons.
No, my Oppo is factory. But if you’re interested in what Ric has to say about this DAC you can do a search on the Digital Asylum. |
"what other dacs do you have experience with? Please share your comparisons based on your experience. Thanks."
Almost none. I am mostly into analog.* The only other DAC I have owned is a Lavry DAC a while back. If you want comparisons write to Stereophile; I am not a reviewer. I have tried hard not to overstate my credentials. I just took a look at what this thing has inside, read what some others have said, thought it should be good and took my chances, I can't really compare as I've not had any digital that is close. It's closer to my analog--with the usual digital advantages. You couldn't pay me to sit down and compare a bunch of DACs. I'm not trying to sell anything.
*Though this LKS has me trying out old CDs the way my then new phono pre had me trying out old records. I don't think I did that, to this extent, with other digital changes.
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"One thing here no matter how much anyone mods the unit and all the Hype"
First of all there is no "Hype." The LKS unit is virtually not marketed at all. If you want to talk about "Hype" continue to write about PS Audio. Fact is you’re comparing $1600 product that you have never heard with a Direct Stream Jr. @ $4000 or a Direct Stream @ $6000.
And just for the record, Ric has recommended the LKS without any mods at all on the Digital Asylum site. While he, as everyone knows, has an interest in mods he had nothing to gain from this recommendation, actually to a working classical musician who writes very frequently on the subject of recorded music.
Also as a person who does mods, Ric has an interest in identifying good hardware at a good price as a subject for modification. That’s the bias, if you wish.
As for more bias, mine is for vinyl. |
"My opinion, I sincerely doubt this [$1600 and then fully modded DAC] would be better than a Berkeley or DCS DAC. Not in the same league at all.
Do you mean the $5000 or the 16,000 Berkely DAC;
or do you mean the $11,000 or the $35,000 dCS DAC?
A "sincerely" held opinion about a DAC that you have never heard. But, you know, you might be right.
I love these threads. |
In the gareneau post, someone was asking a question. You, however, were offing a sincere opinion. So I would respectfully stand by my questions.
Anyway, I find it interesting that you think the LKS may achieve the sound of up to a $4000 DAC, but not the sound of an $11,000 DAC for example. Since you haven’t heard the LKS, by what logical reasoning do you come to that conclusion? Do you go by weight? Volume? Absence or presence of op amps? Do you look inside and estimate the cost of their components and apply a multiplier? (If you do, by the way, don’t neglect the LKS’s Furutech, Cardas and Neutrik connectors.)
As for delta sigma chips, I would not claim they are the best, or even know whether there is a best. But I fear you may be a bit behind the times. Even the older ES9028PRO has been implemented very successfully, and that is the key, I think: implementation. Most who have heard the newer ES9038PRO have written that the early "glare" complained of is entirely gone, and so it seems on my LKS. If the ESS chips have an economic advantage that leaves engineering room for things like better clocks, and particularly a more sophisticated audio section. Sounds good to me.
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I have never maintained that this unit blows away anything. Frankly, I have no idea. What I do know is that this Chinese maker has just piled in a lot of quality parts and technology in a $1500 package, beyond anything, I think, that a known American or European brand has ever done at anywhere near this price point. I don’t care about "blowing away." I do care about great value. I think most people will acknowledge that it sounds good. Better than Brand X? I don’t know, and don’t really care for Brand X will cost more, probably a lot more.
The LKS has dual ES9038PRO DACs, large dual toroidal linear power supply (50? watts each) with 13 groups of regulation*, all JFET discrete output stage, Amanero USB module, Crystek femtosecond clock, Jensen or Mundorf caps, Cardas RCAs, Neutrik XLRs, Furutech IEC, and even a Swiss Shute fuse plus a remote in a 15.4 lbs. package. Who does that for $1500?
I acknowledge that there may be other, better, approaches to building a quality DAC. But surely this one is pretty OK.
Closest domestic brand value manufacturer I can think of is Oppo, and they make great, high value stuff. I have a 105 and love it. But a lot of people have spent more than the price of the Oppo to modify it, and likely will continue to do so.
*talk about the importance of power supply, something I share |
@chayro - IMO properly designed it doesn’t have to be outboard. Whoever has written about the LKS finds it absolutely silent. That’s true of a number of others with large inboard PS, as well as preamps with large inboard PS, etc. I'm with you that power supply is very important. I’d rather get it built in then be offered a sell-up option at much higher ultimate cost. |
@jib222 It's been a while. Any word? |
The manufacturer’s support page is at: http://www.mu-sound.com/about.asp?id=3The manual, such as it is, is at: http://www.mu-sound.com/files/MH-DA004.pdfTo use the Coax, Optical, AES/EBU or the BNC, there is no set-up, just plug it in. If that’s all you plan to use, no reason to buy the optional Amanaro USB board. If you have a sophisticated music server that outputs I2S you also don’t need the optional board. For the Amenero USB I found the set-up easy as I have JRiver. With the help of the email factory support all I had to do was download the Amanero driver, from Amanero or from the support page, and set JRiver as follows: Audio Device is set at "Combo384 ASIO 1.03 (ASIO)", DSP & Output Format should be left at "None". Bitstreaming should be set to "Yes (DSD)". The factory suggests that DPLL should be set at BW08 or above. I set it a bit lower. It works perfectly playing any kind of file from my computer. I’ve used my Oppo to rip DSD files off all of my SACDs and they have never sounded so good. Instructions that I would not be able to follow are given for Foobar. Other users have done it successfully and would be glad to help, I’m sure. Or perhaps the factory by email. See: https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/l-k-s-audio-mh-da004-dual-es9038pro-dac-van-dammes-double-impact.8...If you are expecting the level of support given by Oppo, it’s not likely to be there. You will likely have to do some learning, and correspondence with other owners. A list of DACs that someone on some forum have so far said is out played by the LKS 004: GUSTARD DAC-X20 Pro Super Ultimate modified Schiit Yggdrasil modified LKS 003 CA DACMagic EE MiniMAX Plus EE Supreme vega dac holo spring level three bluesound vault2 oppo sonica dac mytek brooklyn auralic altair T+A DAC8 DSD Some are more, some are less expensive. That being said, though the DAC is continuing to perform extremely well IMO, it has a known overheating problem. That is being addressed in a few ways, the easiest of which is simply to have a very cheap whisper fan on top of the grill opening. |
I would sell the Onkyo and buy a used Oppo 103. They're selling cheap ($2-300) on eBay. Then you can do everything you want (and much more) for a very reasonable price. And you can operate it all from your phone too. |
"Jib222,
How did your LKS MH-DA 004 DAC modification turn out?"
Funny, but I think we’ll never know. This question has been asked since this old thread began. Something seems to have happened to Jib222’s DAC at, or on its way to or from Ric. The last news is that it had to be returned to the factory. Strange because, though I’ve read virtually everything that’s been written about this DAC on the ’net (and in several languages), I have never read about a unit that came from the factory that hasn’t work perfectly. Quality control seems to be exemplary. (There was one case where the optional Amanero board was replaced immediately upon a complaint.)
Also, as for how the modification might turn out, the only two persons who have written about having their unit modified by Ric each have had their DAC directly shipped to him. So a before and after "How did it turn out?" may never be written. Ric’s modifications to this DAC seem to be less extensive than those he does on the Oppo. On the Oppos he replaces the entire analog output section with a new discrete one. Not necessary on the LKS that features 8 JFETs and associated components.
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@torinf
I’m the OP and I like this DAC a lot, but you sound like a shill. You’ve sent your overly long post, in exactly the same form, to a number of different forums. It looks as though you have and agenda and a product to push and a seller to get it from. I have never seen anything like this.
Frankly, I don’t think anyone should pay any attention to what you write.
Just my $.02. |
Just to have everything in one place, the LKS costs about 1/3 the cost of the Denafrips, and 1/7 the cost of the DAVE.
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Since I am the OP, perhaps it's time for me to offer my long term impressions of this DAC. I have not been a digital guy and have not compared it to other fine DACs. But recently on another forum I was asked about strengths and weaknesses of the DAC and this is how I replied:
Before the LKS I used a Lavry Black and then an Oppo 105. But being a listener mostly to vinyl they proved unsatisfactory and I found myself almost not using them. By contrast I find the LKS to give me a sense of musical event similar to my vinyl playback system, but with the usual digital advantages. Bottom line is that I enjoy listening to it easily as much as to my vinyl. First of all, perhaps due to its enormous power supply, there is a top to bottom fullness. There is also the solidity of instruments in space. You can almost reach out and touch. The quality of the bass is really fun. My earlier DACs presented the instruments to me as vapor or cardboard. Beyond that with the right material the music fills my wall from beyond the speakers and there is very good depth, a see-through quality. Using one ESS9038pro dac chip for each channel might have something to do with the spatial illusions. Like when I upgraded to a fine all tube phono pre, it differentiates more clearly between the good and the great software. Almost all of my listening now is from a laptop and HD playing ripped CDs and SACDs plus a few downloads.
As for weaknesses, as to sound I can't determine any. But I'm no digital expert. The weaknesses, as far as I am concerned have to do with the conditions of ownership. LKS (Li Ka-shing) is a small Chinese company with no international presence. Consequently ownership is a bit of an adventure. As an earlier adopter I had to address an overheating problem that the factory has since addressed. Very easily done with a few cheap heat sinks. Support from the factory is supplied by email from an English-speaking support person. Still have to deal with things like removing the Amanero board to update firmware, but not a big deal. It's simple, and the factory provides very detailed instructions in English, but for a bit of a hobbyist. For additional support I keep in touch with other owners in a thread at head-fi.
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Correction: In my post above I incorrectly named the small Chinese Company that designs and manufactures the LKS DACs. It is Mu Sheng Electronics (沐声电子). |
@smodtactical
It is rare that a do-all component can excel at all of its functions over separate, well chosen components. A couple of the commercial reviews of the hdv820 suggest that its DAC section is outperformed by separate DACs which themselves have been said by users to have been outperformed by the LKS 004. I have tried in vain to obtain technical information about the DAC section of the hdv820 other than that it probably uses an ESS 9018. They don't seem to give out a lot of information about what else is inside.
One of the problems in considering purchase of the LKS is that there are no domestic dealers and almost no opportunity to try one out at home or even to hear one. It is generally decided upon on the basis of a lot of reading and research. It may not be the very best, but it certainly seems to compete with the best--and has a huge price advantage
As for USB mode, I can report better performance after ripping CDs and playing through a laptop to the LKS than playing the CDs through an Oppo 105 and out to the LKS. Of course I can now rip SACDs and play them through the LKS as well. No comparison to playing the SACDs through the Oppo DAC which is far inferior.
Finally, I didn't know what sbaf is, but after reading the @hfaddict post I took a look. It seems the guys over there simply reject the whole class of delta-sigma DACs notwithstanding that some of the best DAC implementations on the planet do very well with them, and taking note of different tastes. Much too much concentration on the chip rather than on the implementation and no talk at all of the music used for any comparisons. Frankly, they seem like a bunch of jerks with a kind of political point of view, and who want to sound like they know more than they do. It's their way or the "sound like crap" way! Interesting, but very odd.
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@hfaddict wrote "I’m quite happy with my purchase and can only hope it is as reliable as my Chord has been!" I think I've read just about everything written about this DAC, and with the help of Google in 3 languages. I have not yet read of anything going wrong with the DAC. There were some issues of possible overheating in the analog area. Early adopters addressed the problem in a few different ways. The factory has since resolved the issue. One thing I think that makes the LKS easy to assemble without issues and even keep running well is the large amount of real estate that you get with the unit. It is large and laid out very simply with plenty of space around components. You have put up a lot of pictures, but my favorite is of the insides: https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/9938884.jpg Your unit, if of recent manufacture, differs from this picture in that the 8 FETs in the analog section are now on the underside of the board. In fact, should anything go wrong, and as you can see, it would be fairly simple to disconnect a few plugs, remove a few screws and the Amanero board and lift out the circuit board to send in for repair if necessary. |
@smodtactical
The upgraded Amanero board is excellent with its own power supply (though drawing about 5V from one of the 50W transformers). It also has two femto clocks on board.
The Schiit unit is not at all comparable as the Amanero board is a USB to I2S board, not a USB to coax. Major difference, and much in favor of the Amanero.
As for the input, you use the Amaero board if you want to go in via USB. That would depend upon your source.
As for a US review, I believe that they can sell all that they make and mostly in Asia. It’s supposed to be a favorite in Hong Kong. So no American marketing. Anyway, why would you believe an "official" reviewer more than the dozens of users who offer opinions on the various ’net sites? I don’t think a commercial reviewer would write that a $1500 Chinese DAC could compete with the major players who offer a lot of advertising. Just my personal $.02. Also US mags usually don’t review components that don’t have US distribution. |
@stray_cat
It looks like you may not hear from Ric.
I would read what he wrote to mean that the modified LKS is better than the unmodified LKS and that the modified Sonica is also better than the unmodified LKS. But I take that with a grain of salt. I think I have read everything written on the net about the LKS, and in more than one language. I have never seen a comparison of Ric's modified to an unmodified LKS written by a user.
Read above in this thread what Ric wrote about the unmodified and the modified LKS in the What's Best Forum.
Keep in mind that Ric's modification market for the LKS is infinitesimal. Not only are there very few, but it has been much praised in unmodified form, surpassing its predecessor (LKS 003) as modified substantially. Moreover due to its very large size, quality parts, functional simplicity (compared to the Sonica) and very simple layout it is relatively easy for hobbyists to modify on their own. The unmodified LKS is already like a Sonica on steroids!
The modification market for the Sonica (and 205) is much larger. So a little puffery on Ric's part can be excused.
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An unanswerable question.
The LKS has two 50 watt toroidal transformers. One is for the digital circuits; one for the analog circuits. The Holospring appears to have one transformer about that size (Is it, in fact?) and one quite a bit smaller.
What would be the advantage of a silver v. a copper transformer of the same power?
In any event, to answer your question I suppose you'd have to buy an LKS and substitute in a silver transformer. |
The DAC has been in my system for about 2 years. I have been mostly an analog guy. Previous tries at digital didn’t get much listening but this DAC does. My analog system is VPI TNT, AT Art-9, three stage all tube (no SUT, no transistor) phono pre. Rest of the system is solid state. As for SQ I am currently indifferent as between listening to the DAC or to LPs. Since getting the DAC I have accumulated a lot of CD/SACD files (a good many from local libraries) and listen to LPs because they are old friends. SQ from files is better than from silver disks.
The answer to your direct question is the same I would give about my analog system, it depends on your software. It will be revealed, quality, warts and all. The LKS is not a euphonic device. To a very very small extent with the DAC, as I live in a large crowded metro area performance may vary with quality of the electricity and the unit may sound better at certain times. Some have put electricity re-generators in front of this and other DACs.
The problem with buying the LKS DAC is that there are very few of them so it’s hard to get opinions. But as compared to your DAC, it has a much more robust power supply, 2 DAC chips each costing 5 or so times what the DAC chip in your unit costs (though correlation between price and SQ is questionable) and a fully discrete FET analog stage as compared to chip implementation. Anyone getting the LKS should shield the transformers, very easily done. |
@sns
Yes, someone has seen this, and thank you for writing about the new 005 DAC. I think I've read all the printed material about it though, as you know, very little has been written by anyone who has heard it. As with the 004 it probably has its greatest market in Asia.
As I see it, the 005 is a substantial refinement of the 004. It is still a two 9038pro chip with discrete analog section DAC. The power supply has been upgraded and IIUC it has been further insulated from the incoming AC current. Metal walls separate the transformers and circuits, which many of us did on our 004s. That alone makes a clearly discernable difference. Also the clocking, including on the USB input, has been upgraded in a very major way. Fundamentally that's what has to be done to minimize jitter in the DAC which is what stands between good and great music reproduction from it. It might be mentioned that many of these changes have been done to the 004 by hobbyists on Head-Fi.
I am concerned about the pricing (2.2 times that of the 004) which will keep it from popularity, and wonder whether it was actually necessary.
You use the expression "more forgiving." Can you explain?
Again, thanks for reporting on this important DAC.
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Just a few brief points. I've had a good deal of very positive interaction with Jinbo, the designer and (I think) head of LKS. He has been very helpful and will provide whatever support his customers need. I wish him well with the 005. As for pricing on the 005, he'll figure it out.
As a refinement of the 004, which itself is a VERY conservative design though well executed, its hard to see the justification of a 120% increase in price. If, as you suggest, the price of the 004 may no longer be competitive as it was upon launch, then the 005, remaining with its conservative design but better executed, is priced at considerably more than 120% of the 004's worth. The digital world moves very swiftly.
I said I had read all the printed material, including what's on the new thread at Head-Fi and some of the 005 comments on the 004 thread.
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sns,
Stereophile had to violate one of its cardinal rules to review the Okto, to wit no US distribution=no review. I wouldn’t be surprised if they hear from their advertisers. It’s tough enough for US manufacturers to compete with importers. So it’s not all that clear that they are prepared to do that again. Besides, some small operators (though larger than LKS) have written that they prefer not to have a high profile review. A good review could result in more orders than they can deliver dragging down customer relations. A bad review can put them out of business. LKS might just prefer to have you and others continue to post here and elsewhere.
AIUI LKS is a very small operation. Interesting that their 004 price has held steady. They make so few units that they can sell what they make.
In any event it looks like you’ll have a lot to say comparing DACs on a very good system. I’ll be looking forward to good reading. You might just want to start a new thread here or elsewhere comparing them. |
