Gryphon vs. McIntosh

Thanks for your first thought you shared here Zormi! I agree with you that separates like pre and power will outperform any of the above mentioned integrated amps. Due to the limited space I'm seeking for one box only.

I was really amazed with the Gryphon Tabu sound on my relatively cheap system (Canton Vento 807 DC, cheap Marantz CDP) as after 1 hour after the Tabu was warm enough the artists just appeared in my room and I sensed such a control that I never experienced later in my apartment. Great control and grip, great bass response, no sibilance, full body of the instruments, I could hear the wood of the guitar, singers were singing with full lounges. For Tabu they say it is on the dark and warm side, but I just enjoyed what I heard and I'm hard to conclude if that was dark or warm what I heard. It was just a perfect sound for me.
I read some of the articles and some of the opinions on different forums and some of the users say that Gryphon Diablo is a bit different in character than Gryphon Tabu. But I didn't heard it yet and it is also very hard to get the audition here and that's why I'm asking for more insights. I'm asking also how is it with Gryphon Atilla as this is in practice integrated that can be directly compared to Gryphon tabu as it is the same ligue.

Also McIntosh MA7000 is one of the integrated that would sure love to try in my system but again hard to get audition and also it is a huge animal to carry :).

best, d.

Great thanks to additional answers Inpieces and Elberoth2. Really interesting to read the points and your opinions. But I presume that all these mentioned amplifiers are very well built and there is a lot about synergy which should be played with. It is also interesting that I read some of the opinions from people coming from Jeff Rowland Coninuum 500 to MA7000 and they say that the sound become more fluid and fuller. Maybe not so detailed as on Jeff Rowland but more listenable on the longer run (they talk about tube like sound). But sure there is a much difference in construction, Continuum 500 is pure D class amplifier and McIntosh MA7000 build with their Autoformers. There is one thing I like about both. They do not produce a lot of heat so they can be put practically everythwre and that is one positive thing I like about them both. Gryphons here are different animals again and it is very important that they have enough space so that the heat can go away. There is one additional thing that I liked about Jeff Rowland Coniuum that it has HT bypass. This is an extra goody that McIntosh MA7000 does not have. HT bypass is a function that is very useful for me. McIntosh MA7000 I listened on SF speakers and I liked it. Also EQ controls can be useful I think, to tune the sound to the best liking. But I'm not sure how in practice really works as I did not have time to deal with that. I personally still don't favor any of the amplifiers mentioned here as I don't know them yet so well but sure your help will provide some additional answers that will at least initiate which amplifier should I listen first. But as said I will not decide on the fly so I will take time also a year if necessary to decide properly.

As far as the Gryphon Tabu is concerned I tried it personally in my home and I also know about its past and the sell of plans and development of NAD S300 that is technically almost identical. I'm also familiar about the difference between them. If I go back to the Gryphon Tabu I found it the best integrated amplifier I heard till today and I also listened some of the extremely expensive seperates combos at friends, some Hi-Fi shows or demo rooms. Gryphon Tabu was a big surprise. At the begining I said ok it is playing well but it was still cold. But after an hour it opened up and it was exceptional good. I remember I was listening some of my reference CDs like Miles Davis Kind of Blue and control and wood of the bas was exceptional well. Trumpeth was so well defined and I could touch it with my fingers. I remember also Rodrigo and Gabriela playing the acoustic guitars and it was like I had them in my room. Wood of the body of the guitar was there. Superb performance with great attack, great control. Sound was so full bodied that I did not listened to equipment anymore but music. There were also no sibilance with Tabu. Sibilinace is one of the things that I want to avoid completely as this is one of the thing that is the most irritating to listen. So with Gryphon Tabu I remember I was just sitting in one position, like I was cemented to my couch. I could not hit the trigger on my remote for the next song. All the CDs I put in my CD player sounded so good.
I really wonder how the Gryphon Atilla can compare to this Tabu if it is even better than this integrated amplifier maybe can be my kind of a treat for my ears?!
Still want to collect more comments, more opinions from you and I enjoy that this opens more ground for thinking and to explore even deeper.

thanks, del.

@Kiwi thanks for pointing to your review. Great privilege to meet you here as I was already familiar and I read all your reviews with great interest, already some times ago. I also read other reviews of high class integrated and found them very interesting and thorough.

As far as my system and Golden Cross IC is concerned. This is my latest optimization that I did after a lot of trying and Cardas Golden Cross ICs brought the best music presentation into my system. I tried also with totally different IC cables like Nordost Red Dawn, Nordost Tyr, Nordost Valhalla, Oyaide Across 750RR, Van Den Hul the First, Oehlbach and some others. Cardas gave the music the essence and more spirit, and more meat to the bones. This is what I like and I did not find it slow at all. I think I made a nice circle where now my current Musical Fidelity A308 Dual Mono integrated is the weakest link and needs to be changed eventually. That's why I started to look for some better integrated. But will take some time, will explore, will discuss and will sure also listen to different options when the situation emerges.

So a question to you. Are you maybe familiar with Gryphon Tabu? I like its character a lot and is exactly what I'm looking for. I know that describing the character of some equipment is hard as it is sometimes totally subjective matter and depends also on the other components inside the system. But even though I think that you provided lot's of interesting reviews and I know also some reference music that you used during your reviews and maybe I will understand what you mean to say.

Some describe Gryphon Tabu as a bit dark, gryphonaudio said it is romantic. I would hard to say that if that is what suppose to be dark presentation. Maybe i don't know?! Romantic, maybe as I fell in love with it after 2 hours of listening. I was cemented to the chair :).
I just think that I heard the music the right way through it.

How would you evaluate the character of the MA7000 then? I liked it when I listened music through it. Is a character of MA7000 again dark ?

I now think and wonder that development of Gryphon went another way with Callisto and now Diablo and Atilla series. On some forum where one user had all of them, he said that it is not the same Gryphon as it was before with Tabu so it leans also a bit towards the analytical side. So maybe somebody can this understand as a tad bright? But I can not judge that at all, did not heard them yet.

What interest me are the @Gryphonaudio comments on the development of the character from Tabu series and all the way to Diablo. They are short but still interesting to read them. Romantic is changed now with neutrality and still there is presence of that grip and control that was present in Tabu? So maybe it is true that Tabu was a bit dark and Atilla and Diablo are more towards neutral. As I said already, I like the meaty sound of Tabu. Thick, fast, controlled. Music was with the guts this is what strike me the most. And no matter what I trow into the CD everything sounded good. Also bad recording sounded good. And that is one of the indications that we are dealing here with some really nice piece of equipment. Is that also preserved with Callisto, Atilla and Diablo?
Some of the reviews I read about Diablo said that it is highly dependent on what you throw in so this gives me a bit of discomfort.

You know, I don't like the equipment where you need only audiophile CDs to listen so that music sounds good on the system. I also like to throw into my CD a Pop from the 80s which is usually one of the worst recorded. And if that sounds good then I sense that I'm close to find my mate in the Hi-Fi to accompany me.

thanks for your kinds answers, best d.

Hiya guys Lrsky, Kiwi and Elberoth. That are really good quality answers. I appreciate them a lot!

I need to thank you all for very vivid and detailed description on where you position Gryphon and McIntosh on your experiences. I see that you based your comment mostly on the experience gained with different Gryphons and how it compare to other Gryphon gear (Callisto 2100, Tabu) and also other makers.

A comparison between Callisto 2100 and Diablo and Tabu and Diablo gave me again more understanding of the difference between these two fine amplifiers. I'm lucky here only at one spot that my friend who is living not far from me has Gryphon Tabu and I'm looking forward the time when he will be so good to lend me it again for a test with my current setup which is consisted from Anthony Gallo Ref. 3.5 speakers, Anthony Gallo Ref. speaker wires, MF Nuvista 3D CDP and Cardas Golden Cross ICs. Really wonder what Gryphon can do on it. I liked it on my previous rather more budget system a lot and I think that is how I still carry that sound in my head which is somehow hypnotically good.

What strikes me the most is that some of your observations goes practically parallel with the observations from Frederic Beudot from 6moons who in 2010 reviewed Gryphon Diablo and gave it also best marks. From the review I can identify a remarkable good piece of equipment that is putting forward honest musical truth. What scares me a little is that careful matching is of great importance, also selecting sources on the warm side is a +, the same with speakers. I wonder that he is compensating with this a little to achieve best liking :). Am I wrong? Do I read wrong?
He also mentions that selecting of source material (CDs) that are good recorded will be crucial with Diablo. But he noted a problem when it comes to bad recordings where Diablo is not making any compromises and will put it like it is. So I'm scared a little about that claim. What I also read with a great interest from Frederic (6moons) review is that he mentions also Gryphon Atilla which has a touch of a warmth and forgiveness. And that is giving me a little more reassuring words that maybe this is piece of equipment I might be looking even more. I wonder now on what basis he state this claim as his review is only about Diablo and he did not had Atilla by that time.
Question opened and sure one thing I would like to explore too what is the difference between small brother Atilla and big brother Diablo. :) I know I need to hear it, best on my system in my room, but where is a luck to grab it for test?

Kiwi you somehow identified a character of musical presentation that is to my liking and I think I must give you a prize :). I like it bold, meaty a tad warmish and most importantly sibilance is my poison of death which i don't like. And as Lrsky said I adore the equipment with which I can listen any kind of recordings.

And last but not least about the myth of "Dark character" of Gryphon Tabu. This is one of the sentence I heard so frequently from different people from forums, magazines and also my friends who are some Hi-Fi freaks say this. What I wanted to say in my previous post is that I can not say that Gryphon Tabu is dark. I found it detailed, musical, maybe a tad warm and away from sibilance. And very listenable for hours. But I don't understand what dark character means. Maybe music coming from dark background? I sensed very well defined boundaries, great body of the instruments which I could visualize and almost touch and great voices. Great control of the speaker units like Gryphon is playing with them effortlessly. Very relaxing and very involving at the same time. Maybe that makes it dark? I don't know. As I said I was hypnotized as a stone by it and sat in one position for hours as I could not move.

Elberoth I'm also interested in that review of yours. Even though if it is in Polish. I will try to help myself with google translate. If you have it I would be glad if you can share it here with us.

Thanks guys looking forward to hear from you,
best, del.

After a weekend in peace and serenity I'm back for some more interesting discussion here. Thanks for additional comments guys.

As far as the myth of dark character for Gryphon Tabu. I would say that is not correct if I correlate this with your description of dark and what I heard through Gryphon. I would say that Gryphon Tabu had and exceptional well amount of air, very well defined edges and body of the instruments, very dynamic and seductive sound which is with high energy but not aggressive at all. I would hard to say if that is NEUTRAL but sure I would say it was NATURAL to me and enjoyable as music was all around me. Experience that I had with a relatively very cheap system at that time was memorable and was not repeatable in experience and pleasure of enjoyment of the music. Other components that I used on that time while testing Gryphon Tabu were the following: Canton Venton 807DC, Marantz CD53 (old entry level CDP), Nordost Red Dawn ICs and Nordost Super Flatline Gold MKII.
Soon after that experience I bought second hand MF A308 Dual Mono integrated but I did not achieved the same pleasure as with Gryphon. Also changed CDP for MF Nuvista. In 2010 I also upgraded speakers for Anthony Gallo ref 3.5, where there were a lot of improvement and different presentation of music but still I carry that reference magic moments when the music just emerged and that was I think the blame to Gryphon Tabu. Control and body of the singers and organic body of the instruments struck me the most.

About Gryphon reservation towards USA market something is mentioned on 6moons review and I sense some bad experience Gryphon company had in the second half of 90s. More to read is here: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/gryphon/1.html

What is interesting to point here is that we can identify also NAD's attachment to Gryphon and very interesting background. Is here the answer to the development of NAD S300? I think it goes well together if we look the years when NAD S300 was released (1998).

But if I return back to the topic I have a question that is also rather fairly often said for McIntosh gear. "McIntosh sound" often said but not so often discussed what that can be? What kind of sound is that? How do you compare it towards Gryphon? I guess from your answer now is that it is not so deeply involving and does not reveal all the details that e.g. Jeff Rowland Contiuum 500 does?! I'm just guessing this from your answers. I think that McIntosh is not only about the look as I still see a lot of very happy users who found its sound very lush McIntosh. Does McIntosh offer too much forgiveness?

Thanks for great discussion,
best, del.

Thanks guys for providing new answers which they make a total sense to me.

I've read a lot about comparison between different gear and now some of your arguments comes into place and that makes better understanding to me about the sound. I heard McIntosh MA7000 on Sonus Faber Electa Amator II but I did not made any conclusions at that time as it was to short to make them. Sound was pleasant and very listenable, but still I asked myself and told to my friend that his Gryphon Tabu might be even better sounding than this sexy MA7000. If I would be greedy I would be able to live with any of them I think :).

I also found some comments of users on other forums in regards comparison between Jeff Rowland Continuum 500 and MA7000 and there are similar conclusions than here. The only problem I had was to find comparison that we talk now here -> Gryphon vs McIntosh. Only on one Italian forum I helped myself to find some comparison comments between Diablo and MA7000. Users there were mentioning some veil in the Mac's presentation. But it was not defined as something ultimately bad but rather as a tubby sound or musical forgiveness by my interpretation :). Also MA6600 was judged as a good alternative with maybe event better balance of sound than MA7000. But this again I think is much more of a finesse and associated with the equipment used I believe. I found this last mentioned discussion on Audiokarma forums. But my preference would be to discover MA7000 prior to MA6600 more as of technical advantage of the amp.

And finally Diablo on Italian forum was mentioned again as strong, full controlled with excellent transparency and for some better sounding than McIntosh MA7000.

If I go back to my experience with Gryphon Tabu and its bass area. It was simply excellent that is how I remember it with great energy and push. Gryphon just drove my speakers like no amp before or after. Even at low volume speakers still sang so good and with a great body. The only problem as said was first hour as Gryphon Tabu was sounding good, but nothing extra special. Magic came alive after 45 minutes or something.

Coz of the age of Gryphon Tabu I'm now leaning my curiosity towards Gryphon Atilla. Atilla is an entry level Gryphon integrated with 2x100W. It is a proper dimension for my place as I don't need more power for my place. It has also HT bypass that I need and there is a word that it is also a bit more forgiving than Diablo and that maybe can work very well for my system?!? Now a challenge how to find a piece to test it and to confirm this. But Ok I'm not rushing anywhere. How much better can Atilla be in comparison to Tabu? Is it possible to be better sounding at all? Technically certainly, but still I wonder what the reality can show. If weight is the main factor for judgment of the quality then Gryphon Tabu would outperform Atilla by around 8kg. What about the sound?

Thanks Gryphonaudio for your answers and great privilege to have you in this thread! Yes, I'm familiar with that review as I read also serbo-croatian language without a problem. Very enthusiastic and passionately written :). I read it some time ago. It is interesting to note that some of the reviewers who had a chance to test Atilla and Scorpio together are coming to similar conclusions as I read also some other international reviews.

Thanks also for explaining on the weight for Tabu what brings this extra kgs. Atilla as Tabu is also a dual mono design. Are two toroid transformers in Atilla lying one on another or is it just one big single toroid?
I was also searching what is the diameter of the binding posts on Atilla as I could not find this info. I'm closely familiar with Gryphon Tabu which has huge binding posts for speakers and I know that not all spades are able to fit there.

thanks, best, del.

Lrsky interesting thinking and comparissons. I think that something very deep exists why there is no distributer in USA and this is still going on now. I can also understand why there is a distributor in Zagreb or in Belgrade for example. These two cities has a very rich tradition for the high audiophile culture already deep in the past. There were so many trully good Hi-Fi magazines even during Yugoslavia times and also many international Hi-Fi fairs were organized so people were constantly in contact with the best in Hi-Fi also at that time. I think that GDP does not play an extensial indicator for that. People in everage are not that wealthy but I can tell you that some of true heart audiphiles are saving the money elsewhere like having Zastava 750 car, more modest appartments just to have the components that they enjoy the most. Passion and crazyness for sure if you ask me :). What is also interesting is if you read some interviews with Mr. Rasmussen you can also discover some of his passion why he likes it here.

Elberoth2: I came to some conclusions that most important what I search in audio reproduction is music with guts, meat and body. That is what I enjoy the most. Tabu gave me that. But still wonder how is that with Callisto, Atilla and Diablo? Are they really offering the same with a tad more transparency and even more dynamics which I already loved on Tabu? If that is true then they are all my kind of treat :).

best, d.

Guys first thanks for even more explanation of the character of the sound from Gryphon. I read it with great interest as I combine it with the experience I had when listening to it. Helps me understand the difference and expectations when I will be able to listen to it. I think that Atilla will be placed high on the agenda for the audition. Even though it was not mentioned here so very detailed as Tabu, Callisto or Diablo. Atilla has some of the qualities and characteristics that drawled my attention.

Second thing... For me it was rather very surprising to see that Gryphon does not have a single dealer center in USA, as this is so huge market.

I read one interview with Mr. Rassmusen just recently that they want to put very high standards for dealers who wants to sell their units. It is not enough just to represent a brand. Dealers should have the units physically available for listening and not only listed in the catalogues. They should provide a high quality service for customers who are interested into their products.
But besides that I also think that Gryphon is very cautious with the USA market as they do not want to repeat the situation from the 90s which cost them almost their existence. Would be sure good for all the music lovers from USA to be closer to this marvelous Hi-Fi equipment. On the other hand I understand also Gryphon and I think that explanation on their site is sufficient for the moment to say that their presence on the USA market will be reintroduced once proper solution will be found. But I also understand the consumer side ... desire.

best, del.

Started this thread in 2012 and just found it again now. Just to tell all of you that in November 2015 I managed to find Gryphon Callisto 2200 in great condition and bought it without big hesitation. With just few words. This is it, I found my holy grail. Nothing more is needed until it lasts. I hope for long. Gryphon succeed to draw a big smile on my face for whatever I listen.

Associated equipment: Harbeth SHL5+, Musical Fidelity NuVista, Cardas Golden Cross (IC + speaker cables), DIY power cables Oyaide 079 + Tempoelectric.

Yeah you might be correct Inna. I just replaced Cardas Golden Cross with my good old Nordost SuperFlatline MKII that I had in my secondary system and first things that I noticed quite strucked me. I guess I was lazy for 2 years that I did not try that even though I had Nordost always at home.

What were first things I noticed? More attack, better transients, better defined basss, also the music picture became taller with more details. Good thing about Gryphon Callisto 2200 + Harbeth SHL5+ combo I have is that Nordost did not add any brightness as I can not stand that at all. Currently I’m quite happy with this. I have a plan that I will also put in the system also some Nordost IC to see how it is with this. Also considering to buy Heimdall 2 ICs if Nordost combination will be satisfying.

p.s. I think I read some years back, maybe even here on Audiogon about experiences that Gryphon and Nordost are quite very good combo to go with.

Best regards, D.

Yeah I'm aware about the Gryphon cables too, but no opportunity that I'm able to try them. Also to get second hand is quite hard and also a gamble if you just buy directly and not hear them in the system.
Personally I had the best experience from about 7 years back when I tried friend's Gryphon Tabu on Canton Vento 807DC speakers, connected with Nordost cables (SuperFlatline speaker, Red Dawn IC). It is still a memory that I hold in my head until today. Music became alive and totally filled my living room from top to bottom and I submerged in the music bubble.

When I plugged my Gryphon Callisto and make I connection with SuperFlatlines, some of these memories become alive again. I now search for some Nordost ICs to plug it also in the system to see how far I can bring my system, which is becoming more and more enjoyable :).
Best regards, Davor.