Ground loop b/w amp and phono stage


I recently bought the Ayon Triton integrated and when it is connected to my phono stage, Pass Labs XP-15, there is a major buzz coming through the speakers which increases as you turn up the volume. You can even hear it through the music when played at high volume. Needless to say, I'm not playing vinyl at the moment. But when I used the CD player, there is no buzz at all. It's only there on the input which the phono is connected to.

I have used cheater plugs, cheap cables with the ground removed, I've connected the amp directly into the wall plug, I switched from unbalanced to balanced interconnects, and am currently out of ideas. The Pass worked perfectly with my previous solid state mcintosh gear.
ssayeed
But when I used the CD player, there is no buzz at all. It's only there on the input which the phono is connected to.
Not a ground loop jmho....

Do you have the TT grounded to the phono preamp?
What happens if you disconnect the TT from the preamp and install shorting plugs on the phono preamp inputs?
Yes, the TT is grounded to the phono stage. I don't have any shorting plugs but will get some and give it a try. I was told by the dealer who sold me the Ayon that it's a ground loop but based on some of the stuff I have been reading and the fact that the volume increases the buzz, I don't know if this is the case.
Try another phono stage. I don't know why or what, but sometimes Pass gear doesn't play well with other gear. That is not meant as a put down, just what I've experienced.
This is a temporary fix, but try getting an AC ground cheater from the hardware store and put it on the AC cord for the phono section. It may be that the phono section has its ground connected right to the wall, which means you have a ground loop. See if that sorts it out.

I ran into this problem with an electronic crossover at the recent RMAF.

The preamp should be the only thing in the system that has a hard connection to the AC ground, and even there it can be dicey, as so many components in high end audio don't have their grounding systems properly thought out.
Jea48, if I do that, there is no sound. I tried an rca cable plugged into the input section of the phono stage though (Kent at Pass Labs asked me to this) and the buzz returned. Don't think it is the table as I have 2 arms and have tried both. And yes, the ground is connected firmly. Am going to borrow a phono stage from a friend tomorrow and will see if that fixes it.

Atmasphere, I have tried cheater plugs as mentioned in the description at the beginning of the post and there was no change.
Ssayeed, based on what I have read here it sounds like there is a bad ground at the input of the preamp.

No cables => no buzz
2 different arms => buzz
ground cheater =>

If the above is all true the only other possibility is that *both* tone arms have a problem.
, if I do that, there is no sound.
No buzz you mean? Complete silence?

I tried an rca cable plugged into the input section of the phono stage though (Kent at Pass Labs asked me to this) and the buzz returned.
An open ended patch cord connected to the input of the phono preamp sure would cause a buzz...
I think you misunderstood what Kent at Pass Lab wanted you to do.
Or I am misunderstanding what you did...

Just for the heck of it did you try connecting the ground wire from the TT to the Ayon Triton integrated amp instead of the phono preamp?
Ssayeed,

By chance did you try lifting the signal ground from the amp's chassis with the toggle ground lift switch on the back panel?

http://www.stereomojo.com/Ayon%20Triton%20Integarted%20Amp%20Review/AyonTritonIntegratedTubeAmpReview.htm
Jea48, yeah I tried that. Depending on whether the ground is lifted, there is more or less sound but either way it's still pretty loud.

Atmasphere, I have used this phono and these arms with two other amps and have not had an issue. Dead silence. One was a McIntosh C2300 and MC501 combo and the other was a Cary Cad-300. Tomorrow, I am borrowing an Ear 834p from a friend and trying that. I'll let you guys know what happens.
I ended up borrowing an Aesthetix Rhea and the problem persisted. Any ideas?
I ended up borrowing an Aesthetix Rhea and the problem persisted. Any ideas?
02-16-11: Ssayeed

Try another set of line input jacks on the integrated amp.

Try another pair of ICs from the phono preamp to the integrated amp. Make sure the plugs are seated all the way in the jacks. Same process for the TT if plug and ICs connected.

Hook up another TT to the phono preamp. Maybe borrow one.... or go to Best buys or equivalent and buy a cheapo for a test.

If you have a B&M dealer in your area take your TT to them and have them connect it to a system of theirs...
Just a thought but how close is the phono stage to the amplifier?? I know I have issue with mine buzzing if it is to close to the power amp.
Ssayeed, did you cheat the AC ground on the Ayon Triton integrated? Sounds like the problem is there rather than with your phono sections!
Jea48, I tried all those suggestions except the TT switch. I have used four different interconnects between the amp and the phono and used all the amp inputs on the amp.

Ghost rider, the phono is on the shelf below the amp on a wide shelf, but I have moved it to different parts of the shelf and even off the shelf altogether. No change.

Atmasphere, yes I used cheater plugs on the amp. I also used a cheater plug on the power conditioner. No change.

If I do not connect the ground wire to the phono stage, the sound is reduced but it is still there. Any more ideas?
If I do not connect the ground wire to the phono stage, the sound is reduced but it is still there. Any more ideas?

Ssayeed,

Did you try to connect the ground to the chassis of the integrated amp? Maybe a screw on the bottom of the amp.

Have you check for proper AC polarity orientation?
Sometimes that can cause a buzz. Maybe the amp is crossed....

http://www.boundforsound.com/tweak.htm

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/acpolarity.html

and then there is this.
http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an004.pdf

http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/generic%20seminar.pdf

Just grabbing at straws..... Have you tried unplugging the TT from the AC power receptacle and checked for buzz?
Maybe a silly question, but did you try shorter cables? I had a hum between my TT and phono stags, and went from a 3 meter RCA to a 1 meter RCA between my phono stage and preamp. The hum immediately disappeared.
Read through the posts - not sure this test was tried.

Turn everything on system as if ready to play lps. (amp/preamp/phono stage if any /TT).

Put system on mute. Put volume/gain knob at lowest point.

With the platter NOT TURNING lower the needle onto the lead groove of an lp.

Take system off mute and start to slowing turn up volume until the noise is audible.

Now start to move the phono cables slowly . Move them up / down / sideways.

Is there a change to how loud or quiet the noise gets ?

If YES you are getting interference from other sources onto your cables.

See if moving them abit helps.

If not you will have to reposition them or maybe move your TT.

Let me know if this helps.

Cheers Chris
Ssayeed,

How did you solve the ground loop issue?
I am having the same problem with my turntable and I have already tried every that you did in this thread, and also what others suggested.

Please let me know if you had solved the problem.
The most common problem when this shows up is a but in the arm wiring, FWIW.