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Enough SET Power for Rock and Roll

I'm still trying to figure out what SET amp would sound best for Rock and Roll (and other music but especially Rock) on Klipsch Cornwall II speakers (101dB efficiency) in a room about 18x13 (with kind of medium acoustics - not live, not totally dead.) On a Marantz 2230 (which sounds very good, surprisingly good for being ~35 years old and 30 watts of solid state) I found that when I crank up the Rock and Roll on the Cornwalls I'm listening from about 89dB to 97db, but frankly if I wasn't worried about clipping or blowing out the speakers or receiver I could probably enjoy an occassional 100 dB :) - but if I have to live at 97 dB and below I could. (Measurements made with a Radio Shack meter set on fast, C weighting - taken from 1 meter away from the speakers, and also at the main seating position which is about 10-11 feet from the speaker plane.)

From many posts here and over on AudioAsylum it sounds like a 45 SET amp would sound great but might not have enough oomph - although that isn't 100% certain. It seems that a 2A3 SET amp would have a better chance of handling the loud music and the "complexities?" of Rock (and orchestra music) vs. say simple instrumentals and vocals. Next up would be a 300B SET, more power but some people seem to think it gives away some of the "magic" of the 2A3 and especially the 45. It isn't so clear to me from reading the various posts how any of these tube types do on the low end; I think low end (reasonably deep and tight) is needed to do Rock and Roll well - but so is good midrange and highs, so it's a balance, of course.

What do you think, more power and listen loud with ease, ie go with a 300B, or can a 2A3 or possibly a 45 do it all? Or is it possible that SET just can't do Rock and Roll seriously with 101db speakers in a 18x13 rom? In which case, next up is what kind of tube amp? If SET makes sense, I'd like to give it a try but I don't want to push physics or the budget too hard with experiments that aren't likely to work.

Thanks!
hi_hifi

Showing 10 responses by mapman

mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
Interesting thread.

I'd like to try a SET based setup someday but right or wrong I tend to associate SETs more with Jazz and chamber music than rock and pop, which constitutes a fair portion of my listening.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
I wonder what pairings of SET and speaker might do rock/pop best?

Klipsch Cornwall seems like a good match. Are there better ones? What kind of cost should one expect between amp and speakers to really do it well along the lines Larryi described? Any good smaller speaker options?
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
The Audio Mirror stuff is very nice looking and appears reasonably priced.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
I wonder how some of the Zu speaker offerings compare to Klipsch in terms of performance and value for rock music off a SET type amp?
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
I've heard the Jolida fx10 mentioned in that article do a surprisingly good job with a pair of Nola monitors. I could see it doing very well with Zu's. THe author seemed to like the Miniwatt as well. Will have to check those out.

How about Zu versus Klipsch in general for rock/pop music using a flea powered tube amp?
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
jetex,

Audio Note always has one of teh best sounding rooms at shows I’ve been to.

They seldom have rock music playing, but the larger bass driver and box used and corner placement combined with efficiency and overall quality is a very good example of a system built to be able to do most all things very well.

I’ve stolen the corner placement idea from them and use it with other box speakers I have of similar concept and the bass reinforcement corner placement provides alone might help push a system not otherwise built for rock music over the hump. Along with all the rest.

The only penalty paid I think is depth of soundstage in some cases but most people can probably live with that tradeoff.  Most traditional box designs are not champs at soundstage depth in particular to start with.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
jetrex yes I've heard the Volti speakers at shows as well and understand what you are saying.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
Rock music is loud and that's the way most fans want to hear it.  If you are an audiophile you want it loud with all the other good stuff audiophiles listen for.   

The opinions appear to be mixed whether a SET amp can truly do rock well.   I think most SET owners are willing to compromise in this area which is fine.  Some may have big large high quality speakers capable of the task, but those are not for everyone.  

Also I have yet to hear a SET do rock music loud and real at shows.   Most vendors naturally shy away from that kind of demo.

Its also true that in a small room in particular with agood setup one might get away with a lot more in this regard.

But it just does not seem like a natural fit for a lover of loud rock music to attack it with a SET amp.  It may still sound quite nice, just not the best for that kind of music.   

Then again we have to accept compomises somewhere usually when it comes to sound quality so one can pick whatever compromises works best for them.

For someone who liten to a variety of music including rock, the advantages may outweigh the disadvantages.    That's what it pretty much always comes down to when making a choice.


mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
The easy test is if you can turn up the volume and things are in fact much louder but do not seem to be, that’s a good sign. You can tell by how well you can hear other sounds in the room at same level with volume down then up, like someone talking to you.

My Bel Canto Class D amps (lots of NF, high damping factor) do this quite well despite those things usually working against it "in theory".     Class D amps are a different breed for sure.

Also happens often in live concerts where you don’t realize how loud teh music is until you try to talk to someone.
mapman's avatar
mapman
21,838 posts
 
The absolute sound is truly a pipedream.   Most likely no two people would agree even if they heard it.

I do believe though that there are best practices to be followed in assembling a system that facilitates getting to the best sound possible  for most anyone faster than otherwise.
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