Do we break in our componets or do our componets ?

>this is an old debate with fairly clearly drawn sides<

That's an interesting idea. That one can trot out all of
one's old arguments regardless of the stimulus. I think
it would be better to follow the thread at hand and deal
with points that have been made rather than railing
against phantom "measurement people."

But hey -- maybe that's just me.

Some stuff definitely needs to break in.

I've seen amps that sound pretty good out of the box, but
are missing the bass and over the next few weeks, playing the
gear continuously, the bass fills in, highs extend, etc.

This doesn't mean you have to like the sound after the
component has broken in.

You do have to give your gear time, but you also have to
trust your ears. If you find yourself continually *trying*
to like your system -- that's probably a warning sign of
some sort.

IMO, you have to give each component a fair shot, but you also have to be willing to move on and try other stuff in
your system until you're happy.

Tinker, tinker, tinker.

IMO, this is what is so *PERFECT* about Audiogon. You can
usually purchase a component used, try it in your system --
keep it immaculate, save the packaging, etc. -- most cases the gear should be broken in if it is used -- but, I've bought used stuff that still broke in further -- and if after giving it a fair shot it doesn't work, sell it for close to what you paid.

As you mix and match, you'll get a feel for how different
components affect the sound, which piece in your system is'the "weak link," etc.

Don't stop until you're happy.

"An unbroken-in piece of wire smaller than one inch will throw a system into a tail spin."

I'm a believer in "break in," but I would have to say I'm skeptical about taking "break in" this far. Maybe it depends on the definition of "tail spin."

Corona --

I've never had my system thrown into a "tail spin" because
of an unbroken in piece of wire smaller than one inch. I
question the chain of events that would cause such a thing.

I only say this to repsond to the subject of the thread.

Are there people who believe in break in?

I would say, some do, some don't, and some go so far as
to profess that a unbroken in wire smaller than one inch
will throw their system into a "tail spin."

I am positioning myself somewhere in the middle.

I believe in "break in" but obviously not to what I would call "the extreme."

I would only add -- not to be insulting, but just as a general caution to people getting into audio -- I would
be skeptical of anyone trying to sell me something like
a "cable cooker" based on the proposition that if I don't
my system may go into a "tail spin." I've never experienced anything in my life in audio that would cause me such a fear.

In all cases, best thing to do is trust one's ears.

Rob

Eldart -- well put.

Twl --

I don't think you'll get flamed. I think you've made a nice
argument for your position. But, as I read the thread, I
don't see anyone taking the positions you are arguing
against. It seems that someone mentioned "instruments" and that was close enough for you to project your "measurement" opponent onto him. So, while you make a cogent argument, it seems you had to set up a straw man to do it. Other than that, I sense
some typical audio one-ups-man-ship in your post. It
seems you really want us to know you can hear things
that can't be measured. And, this is the typical response to the measurement types -- the claims of
"golden ears." I am skeptical of both sides in the
argument. Finally, there is the infamous study where
they gathered a group of audio reviewers with "golden ears" and had them listen to a sound system. Next,
they showed the group different speaker cables. As
each cable was substituted for the previous, the group
marveled at how different each set of cables sounded.
The problem was that thye cables were never changed.
It was 16 gage zip cord all along. So, there are charlatans everywhere. People who claim to hear things others can't and people who deny the existence
of things that cannot be measured. IMO, anyone trying
to navigate around this field should approach ALL claims with a healthy dose of skepticism.