DENAFRIPS DAC ---- Owner Impressions, Feedback, General Discussion, Questions and more....

Referring back to our auditions with the DENAFRIPS products at Vinh’s, I just wanted to summarize a few things:

The DENAFRIPS products, from the Ares all the way up to the Terminator are excellent sounding DACs. I believe at less than $700, the Ares represents tremendous value in the marketplace, and isn’t far from the Terminator; certainly not as far as one would expect. World beaters or game changers? I wouldn’t use those terms. In fact, in comparison with Vinh’s (incredible) vinyl rig, the Terminator did not come close. Would I consider one for purchase? Yes, absolutely. But do I consider them without peer? No.

At this point, DENAFRIPS has NO North American representation. Although Vinh has bent over backwards in helping the brand through efforts like our get togethers and featuring the products at AXPONA, he is not the importer / distributor, and from the time we spoke about it, considered it too big an undertaking for him at this point in his life. In other words, although Vinh is an exceptionally good man (I know that because he’s been a good friend of mine for 20 years), to the best of what I know today, he has no financial compensation in this whole thing. Thus he is not here to help anyone should they require it beyond what he provides through his own kindness and grace. Likewise, there is NO North American repair facility / personnel or product support.

I believe the establishment of a foothold in North America, or not, rests with the leadership of DENAFRIPS finding a capable entity to represent them in this market. If that does not happen, understand that if you consider purchasing the product, you essentially are on your own.

As of today and unless and until what I just mentioned changes, you buy a DENAFRIPS product, YOU assume the risk as well as the responsibility for dealing with the offshore based company if anything goes wrong from A - Z, from the transaction itself to day you or it goes away

trelja,

While I share your frustration regarding the lack of promotion and active presence in the US marketplace from Denafrips themselves, your post reads as if you have an axe to grind beyond what you wrote here. Sour grapes as it were.

Today, quite a few non-US manufacturers have little to no "on soil" representation. Not a desireable thing for us here IMO, but a reality nonetheless. Alvin at Vinshine Audio does a very fine job covering the bases on customer support for Denafrips products across the globe.

As for the differences in sound quality between the Ares and the Terminator, there are numerous testimonials from owners on the Facebook Denafrips Owners Group forum, some of whom have moved up the line from the Ares to the Pontus, some from Pontus to Venus, some from Venus to Terminator, and some from Ares to Terminator that describe very large improvements in sound quality as they moved up, particularly the latter group. Your opinion counts equally, but is an outlier among the field.

I have a close friend that attended Axpona 2018 and spent time in the Gingko/Denafrips suite. He was initially gracious in sharing his opinion with me but it is clear that he found the sound largely underwhelming due to the chosen speakers perhaps. Upon hearing the Terminator in my system, he was in disbelief that the same DAC was in play in both systems. The sound quality from the Terminator was that much better here to his ears.

No doubt that Denafrips and Alvin need to do a much better job with hands-on participation at these shows and also with their promotional efforts in general, but what your wrote above is overly heavy-handed IMO.

Dave

@dlcockrum thank you for your perspective, Dave. I do appreciate hearing feedback so I can consider and adjust.

I have no axe to grind, nor is this a situation of sour grapes. Those things are certainly NOT my intention. As this thread details, I’ve taken part in the DENAFRIPS evaluations, as Vinh and I go way back, and I’m fortunate enough for him to trust my opinion enough to include me in things like this, in addition to getting to spend time together.

I have a high enough level of confidence in the resolution and overall capabilities of Vinh’s system to know it didn’t blend the products into something that prevented us from providing an accurate assessment. Having heard other DACs and other front-ends during our times with the DENAFRIPS products bolsters that.

My opinion holds in that the DENAFRIPS lineup from top to represents a strong group of DACs. Again, not world beaters or game changers, listening to the Brooklyn DAC in the same setting showed that. But without question, worthy. In fact, the Ares is so strong and so close to the Terminator it’s a flat out screaming bargain and no-brainer. So it DEFINITELY wins my recommendation, as I’ve stated several times. Restating the house sound and lack of distance between the products, I do get confused when it comes to the middle two products. For me, it’s a question of the value of the lower cost one balanced by the improved aesthetic of the more expensive. The Terminator certainly represents a strong statement at the top of their line. I CONDITIONALLY recommend it, and have given it for myself consideration.

Now, comes the area we disagree...I’ve seen far too many instances of folks getting burned in the long run by BOTH domestic and foreign high-end audio and all manner of other industries, by spending good money on what they considered an excellent product at the time only to be left holding the bag in the end because the manufacturer, importer, or seller did not invest in any degree of infrastructure and end-user support. Using past as prologue, I have little tolerance when that happens in real time, and I call it out to ensure folks understand everything. Forewarned is forearmed.

Electronic components, audio and otherwise, break. When they do, the customer requires and deserves support. Though the world has shrunk exponentially, it still costs hundreds of dollars to ship a DAC between North America and either Singapore or China. In fact, a two way trip may exceed the cost of an Ares itself. That means, it’s now a paper weight. Unless a North American support entity rises up, eventually people who buy these products WILL find themselves getting burned in the end. That’s also why the Terminator gets only my conditional recommendation, for now.


In the end, I am actually rooting for the company. A lot of what lies behind this and my previous post is to spur the company on to doing this thing the right way.  I like the product, and again, am considering a purchase. No doubt DENAFRIPS has generated sales of late, at least some directly from Vinh’s efforts. Does the temptation exist to not buy the cow when you get the milk for free? In other words, why not make a few bucks selling however many get sold direct, invest as little into the customer as possible, and get out when the output no longer exceeds the input? If so, I feel that’s short-sighted, and ultimately lose - lose

Good point Trelja ,certainly thought should be given to these realities before making a purchase.
I understand in the event of a failer like example one of the multiple capacitors that are in the Terminator the boards are pin connected not soldered for easy removal and installation not to mention the distributors fabulous customer relations including a 36 month warranty which includes a round trip shipping covered by Denafrips if needed was enough to satisfy me to purchase the Terminator. 

Thank you trelja for the nice response. I cannot argue that there is not some risk involved in purchasing from a young company located in China. Anything can happen and groundless speculation is really pointless. I would have never dreamed that Thiel and Classe, both well-respected North American manufacturers with a strong US dealer network for decades, would cease to exist by 2018 back when I bought their top products in the 90’s. Oppo just folded despite a rabidly faithful customer base.

I think the Terminator is a game changer in my system. At under $5k the value is ridiculously high. I have not heard the Mytek Manhattan but understand that it is a fine DAC. Personal preference makes the audio world go round!

It’s all good, trelja. :)

Dave