Dedicated circuits

where to buy a magnetic breaker?

@gp4jesus  , what I was getting at is I think that the problem is going to be, if for legal reasons you feel constrained to have the brand of your CB  match your box, that magnetic CBs may not be available in the brand that you want.  

@jea48  , thank you for clarifying that for us. 

Isn't one of the selling points of a dedicated circuits that other loads are eliminated  which would dirty up the power to your audio components?  Not necessarily that you have more current available, but "better" current?

Thanks for that @dpop , I decided to do 3 dedicated circuits about 25 years ago. I didn’t know then and still don’t know a whole lot about this stuff, but I used to work with a bunch of shade tree carpenters & electricians & I bought a book about basic home wiring. I put the outlets in and ran the 12-2 runs of Romex, and then I paid someone to install an upgraded box and connect my new circuits.

However, my stupid question is: in the course of living in our house, I found the need to relocate outlets. Twice, actually. I asked around (including the electrician people at Lowes) and I was told that it was legitimate to use a work box to create a junction in the dedicated circuit. So the two questions are:

1) was this actually a legitimate thing to do?

and

2) the three circuits are still dedicated in that there is nothing on them but my audio components, but did the work boxes in between them and the outlets degrade them and does it affect them that each as two other outlets that are not being used? Does that last question even make sense as written?

@dpop  okay, I can happily live with that!

Another question sort of related to the dedicated circuit topic:

either here or on AA I once read something to the effect that the class D of most powered  subs would "dirty up" the power for whatever other audio component was on the same circuit.  I apologize if I am misquoting this, this is a rather foggy subject for me.

So my questions are:  is there any truth to that, and if so, I guess that means your sub should be out there on it's own island?

I am currently running my amp on one circuit, my pre and my CD player on another circuit, and due to what I typed above being stuck in a cloudy recess of my brain, I have my sub on it's own circuit. . . .

If you have an electrical fire as a result of your non-NEC code compliant installation, your insurance can deny your claim. In order to make this code compliant, you need to put a 20-amp breaker before a 20-amp receptacle.

I think folks should be careful of offering their non-code-based suggestions regarding how to install electrical circuits in a residential environment.

@nmolnar , if a 15A breaker was in front of a circuit that was made of 12-2 Romex and 20A outlets, wouldn’t that be safer? I mean, the 15A breaker would trip way before the 12-2 or the 20A outlet got hot enough to catch fire, right? I ask this with no intent of sarcasm whatsoever--I would really like to know.

The breaker handle rating determines the size of the branch circuit, not the wire.

@jea48 okay, I understand that. But what I was getting at was wouldn’t a circuit with Romex and outlets rated for 20A but protected by a breaker that will trip at 15A actually be safer? I mean the 15A breaker should now trip way before the 20A circuit can get hot enough to be dangerous?

You can plug numerous items into a 15A receptacle that exceed 15 amps, portable heaters come to mind. My Skilsaw. The outlet is undersized for the circuit, and the potential load(s).

@builder3 wouldn’t one be better off if the outlet was oversized for the circuit and the potential load(s)?

@immatthewj A 15A receptacle on a 20A breaker is not an issue as any 15A appliance will never exceed the wiring in the circut. The reverse of a 20A outlet on a 15A circut is where the potential of fire comes into play. We assume the breaker will trip and protect us from harm, but what it it doesn’t? That’s why we don’t push our luck. Cheers.

@bigtwin , thank you for bearing with me on this; I know that I have a tendency to be kind of dense on this stuff. What I have is essentially three circuits that consist of 20A outlets connected to the box by 12-2 Romex and I put 15A breakers in those slots as I felt the 15A breaker was actually added protection. I can easily rectify this by putting 20A breakers in it. I just felt that as long as the circuit breaker’s amperage capacity did not exceed the capacity of the rest of the circuit, I was good. I guess I felt that by taking the breaker down to 15A I was being extra good.

@bigtwin  , actually it was me, not @jea48  who was wondering about a 15A circuit breaker on a 20A circuit.  Anyway, I am not trying to be argumentative, I was just thinking that if the circuit breaker is designed be the weakest link in the circuit I thought that making it a little bit weaker could only be further protection for the circuit. 

I did a search and found this

Should a 20 amp circuit have a 20 amp outlet?

The amperage of the outlet must never exceed the amperage of the circuit. According to National Electrical Code, only a 15-amp or 20-amp electrical receptacle can be installed to a 20-amp circuit.

Thank you, @bigtwin and @builder3 Okay, the 20A breakers are going back in.

I believe that one of the misconceptions I had was that the 20A outlet was actually a heavier duty outlet built to safely carry more current than a 15A outlet . . . that isn’t so, is it? The difference is only in the ’T’ slot, and that difference is to protect a 15A circuit from having a 20A appliance connected to it?

Okay, so bear with me for one more question, and I assure you that this is strictly a hypothetical question. If 12-2 Romex was in between a 15A breaker and a 15A outlet, that would be legit, wouldn’t it? The 12-2  in between the breaker and the outlet would be overkill, but there would be nothing technically wrong with that because the outlet matches the breaker’s rating?

You see, that’s what I thought I was doing with the 15A breaker protecting what I felt was, in all other aspects, a 20A circuit. But I am starting to see the error in my thinking, and I do want my homeowners to cover me in event of catastrophe, so seeing as how changing breakers is easier than changing outlets, the 20A breakers are going back in tomorrow.

Thank you, @jea48 .

FWIW, what you did is electrically safe,... It just doesn’t meet code.

I am putting the 20A breakers back in tomorrow.  In the event of a catastrophe, even an unrelated catastrophe, I'd rather meet code and not be trying to argue with the insurance code about it.

. . . you see, my misunderstanding was that I was considering the outlet part of the Romex. In other words, since is legit to run heavier Romex in a circuit than what the breaker is rated for, I was thinking that the same would apply to the outlet. In other words, it would NOT be legit to have a 20A breaker for a circuit ran with 14 gauge Romex, but it would be legit to have 12-2 Romex with a 15A breaker, and therefore, I was thinking that as long as the other components of the circuit (Romex and outlets) were rated for more than the breaker, that would be safe and legit.

Thank you for clarifying for me what was wrong with that logic--safe, but not legit.

@mesch and @everyone else who took the time to clarify this concept for me--thank you. I may be a little bit dyslectic when it comes to this stuff--the way I was seeing it was that with a 20A outlet & 12-2 connecting it to the box, I had a 20A circuit protected by a 15A breaker. When actually I had the opposite. But now I understand the error in my thinking & I am rectifying it. I do not want a catastrophic event--period; but if one occurs, I do not want my insurance company finding a way not to pay me.

Anyway, I would have already put those 20A breakers in, but since this is the dedicated circuit thread, something else had been gnawing at me. My circuit needed to move to another room a few years ago, so what I did was put a work-box in my attic for a junction from which I could drop the lines down into my new location. I went to Lowes to load up on the stuff I would need, and the electrician guy who was there sold me on these (for lack of knowing what they are really called I will call them) "stab connectors" instead of wire nuts. (one stab for black from box/one stab for black to new location/one stab for black going to original location X white & copper X three circuits . . . I never really liked the way I felt about the way they grabbed on to the stripped leads from the Romex, and a while back ago I wound up putting wire nuts on all the grounds because I lost a ground on one circuit (must not have been a patent stab) and after I read a reply on this thread about circuits made up of "back stabbed outlets," I decided to get up in the attic today and pig tail and wire nut ALL the splices on ALL three of the circuits. Which is not as much fun as it sounds like, because I had to reroute some of the Romex as I had it stapled down after I finished it the last time, and I needed more Romex in order to work with it inside the work-box. So that’s what I have been doing today & will finish up tomorrow.

So going back to a few years ago, when I was buying stuff at Lowes, the electrician guy who was assisting me asked me to describe the Romex I had used, & when I did, he told me it was only rated for 15A. Since I only do this when I need to, and since I originally did it 25 years ago, I thought it would have been strange that everyone who told me what I needed to do and the electrician who actually hooked my Romex runs up to the upgraded box I bought, would have told me to buy 15A Romex and then hooked it up to the 20A breakers I had for those 3 circuits, but I am not rocket scientist or brain surgeon so I decided to put 15A breakers in for those 3 circuits. As I was working on my new lines, I did note that my existing Romex was clearly marked "12-2 with ground" and I did later show a piece to an electrician who assured me that it was good for 20A. But, a 15A CB just seemed like an error on the side of safety for all the misguided reasons that I was asking about in my last half dozen posts or so to this thread, so I never asked anybody, until now, about the legitimacy or wisdom of that.

However, I am glad I did. Sorry for writing War And Peace.

@gp4jesus   for homeowners insurance purposes, make sure that you use the same brand of breaker that your box is.

In my limited experience in my previous & current domiciles, I think the wrong brand bracket won’t fit/work.

@gp4jesus  you might be right,  I don’t do much of this, but once upon a time I was warned that (as an example) putting a GE circuit breaker in a box of a different brand was grounds for your homeowners insurance to deny a fire claim. I don’t know all the details, but I just thought I’d pass that along.