confused and don't know what to do


We would like to buy a nice audio system and also have this double as a surround sound but listening to music is the priority. We have listened to many speakers but have settled on the B&W 804's. Now the challenge is to select a receiver and all the other accompaniments we require. We have a little challenge in that our home is a condo and the outside wall is all glass. The space is combined kitchen, living room, and dining room all open with hardwood floors and hard tile on the walls of the kitchen and a lot of granite counter tops. It seems that every where we go, the recommendations are different depending on what the store is selling and of course, the sales people would like us to buy the most expensive. What would give great sound without going crazy. We are thinking about 2 tribe sub woofers and space is limited and an in wall center B&W speaker but we don't know what we are doing and don't want to throw our money away. Help! Too many choices and we don't have enough knowledge. Thank you so much.
raw33

Showing 4 responses by millercarbon

Where we disagree is that having a center channel is crucial and having back loudspeakers are also something that is going to add a lot into the effect of creating a believable sound field which if done correctly will help immerse the listener in the action.


Right. So rather than let this slide by as a simple disagreement let's analyze it a little and hopefully educate so people can decide for themselves.

The reasoning behind the need for a center channel is simply that people in a movie theater are seated all over the place. A believably rock solid center image and soundstage only works from the sweet spot. People seated far off-center, instead of hearing dialog coming from the screen between the speakers it will come from whatever speaker they're closest to. This of course will ruin the illusion we want to create.

For this reason and this reason alone a center channel can help, if and only if you want people sitting all over the place to hear dialog as coming from the screen. Everyone with seating for lots of people should probably at least consider a center channel for this reason.

So for people with lots of seating, or with seating everywhere but in the sweet spot, it might make some sense to have a center channel. Have you mentioned this, audiotroy? You may well have. Its a weakness of mine to avoid wasting my time reading the posts of certain exceptionally boorish misinformed serial posters. So if I missed it please let me know.

In fact no, I want you to let us all know either way. Am I in fact stating things accurately? And are you in fact informing your customers? Can you direct me to the post where you covered this? Answers. Please.

Most of these threads are full of so much waste of time I hardly ever come back for a second look. But just now I did and this one from audiotroy shouldn't just slide by:
Excuse us Millercarbon, please list your experience in setting up a Home Theater, all you do is denegrate those people who enjoy the benefits of both.
Right. I started out like everyone else fed the HT mantra looking for the full monty surround setup. This is all written up multiple times before btw. Spent at least a year, maybe two, going around to all the high end stores along the I5 corridor from north of Seattle to Portland. Started off listening to everything they had in Home Theater. AVRs initially, then separates.
My background before starting this was 20 years listening to a mid-1970's Kenwood integrated with JBL speakers and a Technics turntable, Pioneer RTR and Magnavox CDB650 CDP. That's the quality level I was used to and that's what kept me moving up the HT food chain. Because nothing HT was sounding even that good.
Along the way I would be in these stores and listen to their stereo gear. This was always and without exception night and day better than anything HT.
But I was really determined to have my surround theater experience. I had two pair of Talon Khorus for full range surrounds. I had done every single thing they tell you to do for home theater. All the calibration, speaker setup, everything. Hello! Full range Talons! Can you say over the top???!?
Every once in a while I thought there was something might be worth having. All the HT gear I brought home was crap. Finally one time I got what was at the time heralded to be the best surround processor around. Sorry, forget the model. Does not matter. It was such crap it too wasn't as good as the Kenwood. Played it for my wife. She couldn't believe it either.
HT exists because no one ever bothers to do these direct head to head comparisons. I actually did all this stuff. THAT is my experience.
Look at my system. Try and tell me I don't know what I'm doing. Or what I'm talking about. Go ahead. Try.
Denigrate? No. Again, look at my system! Look at it! DYODD! Its a dual use system! That great big gray thing on the wall? That's a Stewart Filmscreen Grayhawk screen. Again, try and tell me I don't know home theater!
Time and time again people come here looking for sound advice. Time and time again they run into people like audiotroy pushing what they have to sell. Talking their own book. That's the worst you could say of me. Talking my own book.
But at least I went to the trouble to do the work and make the comparisons, and have zero, zip, zilch, nada, NOTHING to gain financially.
Can you say the same, audiotroy? You are out to make a buck. So why should anyone care a whit what you have to say? And being in a supposedly higher position- professional, after all- to denigrate me? To call me out? You have some nerve. I'll give you that.
What a surprise, the guy with a Home Theater receiver to sell thinks they're just swell. Didn't see that one coming. Dealer willing to say anything just to make a sale. Never in a million years. Good thing everyone knows to trust the guy out to make a buck. 
Do not buy a receiver. If you do, then at least don't waste money on good speakers. Anything connected to a receiver is just a waste. Only thing worse is multi-channel AV receivers. Its criminal they even sell those. 

What you want for music is two speakers, an integrated amp, and a turntable or (if you're one of those) CD player. Connected with the best wire you can afford.

Whatever you do, don't go throwing money away on multi-channel. Look, think about it. Please. You already noticed you could hear a real difference going to better speakers. Well the same goes for the amp, the source, and the wires. Better costs more, and better sounds better. So you get 2 speakers, they are gonna sound better than any 5 you could buy for the same money. Ditto amp. Ditto wire. 

Not to mention you don't have the room anyway. Stereo. Integrated. Only way to go.