@chakster
Yes, this is the problem with a MC2000 or other classic Ortofon. It has to have the OEM cantilever. A diamond can be replaced, Expert Stylus will do this well, although you will have to accept differences between a Paratrace cut and the Replicant 100. How the damping material ages on a classic Ortofon I do not know, that is another point of concern. Sometimes classic audio components just lose the battle with Father Time. |
I looked at those two MC2000 on eBay, and they do have issues with cantilevers. One also has surface corrosion. That unfortunately seems to be a common occurrence with audio goods from Japan. Neither one is of interest. I imagine obtaining a properly operating MC2000 is going to be difficult. I suspect I will go another direction. |
Cartridges are small, and therefore easy to ship. |
@rauliruegas
I have owned an A90 and a Winfeld, and enjoyed both cartridges. I am not as wild about the A90 as other cartridges, although it is a fine moving coil. The top end isn't as vibrant as I prefer, although it's remarkably free of colorations.
I might give a MC3000 II a go for the interim, and keep my eyes open for a nice MC2000 or perhaps a 7500.
To be honest I like my Ikeda 9 Kawami, but one day it's going to need a restoration. When that time comes it would be nice to have a quality stand in for it.
My other favorite is the Transfiguration cartridges, and I imagine one would sound nice on the Dynavector. I would also be interested to try the Audio Tekne. |
@lewm
I believe Mutech had a relationship with Transfiguration and is at least a source for refurbishing them.
Well I am the owner of a MC3000 MK II. Should have it in 4 or 5 days and we will see how it works out. I have an OEM Dynavector head shell with Furtech silver litz wires waiting for it.
Curious to hear how this works out as the MC3000 MK II has the most varied opinion about it of the X000 series of cartridges. Guess we will see. |
@rauliruegas
When in college I worked part time in an audio store. We were an Ortofon dealer and the owner was a fan of the MC2000. We always had one in the store, but very very few were sold. It was too expensive for most customers. But I got to hear it back then, and have always knew of it's pedigree.
I have owned the A90 and it's a nice cartridge. But I suspect I will like the voicing of the X000 cartridges, I have plans to acquire a 7500 whenever an opportunity arises. |
This cartridge was purchased to be used as a daily player for more casual listening sessions. I listen to a lot of vinyl, and while I enjoy my digital rig its really the turntables that get played more. I need a cartridge that I can use up and not worry about the hours it accumulates. My other cartridges are pretty decent, a Transfiguration Audio Proteus, a ZYX 4D, and Ikeda 9 Kawami, and indirectly they set the bar for the sound quality needed from the casual cartridge.
I had obtained an Ortofon MC200 to try in this application, and it sounds quite respectable, but its not where I need it to be. I could have bought a new Audio Technica OC9 series, maybe an Ortofon Quintet, but in the end when the hours are done on those carts they become throw aways. Also, they trail my main cartridges in terms of SQ by a fair amount, so they would not be something you look forward to listening to, but rather also rans.
So this is my attempt to have a good sounding casual cartridge. The acquisition price was a bit higher than a TOTL OC9 cartridge, but I am thinking its worth the difference. We shall see. My ZYX is getting up there in hours and I need to plan for a diamond replacement for it. I don’t need the MC3000 MK II to vie for the best sounding cartridge spot in my collection, I just need it to be competent. |
So the MC3000 MK II arrived earlier this week, and I had a chance to install it last night and fine tune the alignment this morning. I have old eyes, and I find that natural light coming through the window is the morning is great for aligning cartridges.
The first thing I did was inspect the cantilever, and it does appear to be an OEM one that is straight and has no issues, with only a diamond replacement done. The body itself is in nice condition, with no signs of abuse, I did get a stylus guard but no other packaging, but since this is going to be a daily driver cartridge I can live without those other pieces.
I will say I am very pleased with this cartridge. It is well balanced in terms of tone, excellent detail, dynamically expressive, and easy to listen to. I cannot think of anything I would fault it for. The lower output voltage is not an issue for me as the Ortofon E-03 phono stage has plenty of gain and a low noise floor. Just a lovely performing cartridge all around, and it certainly supports the argument that high performance analog playback for cartridges was achieved awhile ago. The original MC3000 was released in 1988, I am not sure when the MK II was produced.
I think I will now keep an eye out for a MC7500. But I am going to enjoy using this cartridge as a daily driver. Whenever the time comes it will get a new diamond as the aluminum cantilever is in perfect shape. What would really be fun is to find one with a damaged or replaced cantilever and fit it with a boron replacement and see what the differences are. I guess simple things would keep me entertained. |
@rauliruegas
I was unaware that the Ortofon bodies were fragile in any way. They look to be a high temperature fired ceramic body from what I can tell. Are the tabs for holding the bolts and nuts known for fracturing? I don't wrench my bolts down super tight, I just snug them up till they are firm, but never over torqued.
This cartridge was not purchased to be one of my best cartridges, but rather a daily driver that I can put hours on when listening to records in a more casual setting. So i can burn up the diamond and not worry about having to send it off for a new stone. The problem with having my other cartridges is that a level of performance is set, and a cartridge like the Audio Technica OC9 II or III is not going to satisfy. The cartridge I am going to want to listen to needs to be a quality unit, but one that can still be had at a reasonable price. These X000 series of cartridges really do not command a price tag on par with their level of performance. Of course the caveat is can your analog system effectively deal with the low output voltages. My phono stage has no issue running a MC3000 MK II, so its a solid choice for what I need. For fun, I will keep an eye out for a MC7500 also. My Transfiguration, Ikeda, and ZYX are long term keepers. But for the fun of it I would like to own the 7500 and perhaps one of the classic stone body Kiseki cartridges. |
@edgewear
Oh I think I crossed that bridge awhile ago. I only use one audio system and have taken over the living room as my audio room. My patient wife is fine with this, but if I were to try to install another audio system in a different room I suspect she would bury my body in a shallow grave in the back yard.
My primary table is a SOTA Cosmos Eclipse with SME V and Transfiguration Audio Proteus. For a person of modest means as myself this should be an end game table. I then came across a Well Tempered Reference with an Ikeda 9 Kawami cartridge on our local Craigs List for a great price so I scooped it up. The Ikeda is not well suited for this arm so I installed a ZYX 4D that I have on it. I then came across a Dynavector DV505 arm on Canuckmart and had to have it. I have a cartridge and arm now, but no table for it. I fixed that by buying a Scheu Audio Das Lauftwerk No 2 from a dealer here on Audiogon. So what is an extra cartridge or two when you own more tables than makes any kind of sense? LOL!
I have a few cartridges I am interested in, perhaps one of the classic stone body Kiseki, the MC7500, one of the Shinon, and maybe a Gold Bug. Thats the list for now, although I have seen an Audio Tekne that peaks my interest too.
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@best-groove That is interesting, and to be honest its difficult to find out what the body is made out of. Ortofon just calls it black sapphire. However I did locate this bit of info regarding developed by an Ortofon dealer in Australia I believe. "MC 5000 The black ceramic body, sintered at approximately 1,200 degrees Celsius, is a rigid structure that eliminates resonances in the audible range. Mounted on a sapphire cantilever, Ortofon’s Nude Replicant diamond is cut to match the sapphire which cut the record groove as closely as possible. MC 5000 is a highly accurate, analytical and neutral transducer. All available information is retrieved from the grooves and music is crisply reproduced with palpable presence that converts your living room into a concert hall. A reference-grade audio system is required to reveal these qualities. Because output is relatively low, a high-performance MC transformer or MC preamplifier should be used. Recommended load: 20 – 100 Ohms.
MC 3000 Mk II Housed in the same body as MC 5000, this cartridge also employs the same Nude Replicant diamond, but mounted on a conical aluminium cantilever. MC 3000 Mk II has a strong sonic resemblance to MC 5000, with a milder, gentler, more laid-back style, while maintaining the integrity, power and authority of complex orchestral works. The listening room is experienced as an integrated part of the concert hall. As with MC 5000, the low output requires a high-performance MC transformer or MC preamplifier with a recommended load of approximately 50 Ohms. The actual load, is, as always, a question of personal preference. A lower value will allow the sonic image to snap into sharper focus, while a higher value will have the opposite effect."
If the body were aluminum I don't think anyone could tighten a head shell bolt that tight to break those mounting tabs as they are quite thick. |
@best-groove Oh that would be very cool indeed! In my searching I never found a reference to sintered aluminum for this cartridge, the best I could do is what Ortofon called black sapphire. The searches for information regarding the Ortofon X000 series cartridges always brought up a legacy page that showed all the Ortofon cartridges but none ever talked about body material. https://www.ortofon.com/ortofon-%C2%B4000-series-p-690If you have any more in depth info you could share regarding the MC 3000 MK II I would love the be able to read it. Please don't read this as me doubting you, I just would like to acquaint myself with all the facts and info I can find on the cartridge as I do enjoy it. I can see myself acquiring a 7500 also, although the MC2000 is getting rare enough, and the cantilever fragile enough that it might be tough to find a good specimen. |
From what I read somewhere the MC3000 MK II uses the same body as the original MC300, so I went back to that review to gather some construction info. That info tracks what the owners manual says.
"The magnet material was changed to a more powerful material called neodymium (it used to be an alloy of samarium and cobalt) and moved closer to the coils, which doubled the cartridge's output. And because the stronger magnetic field might have an adverse effect on motions of the original aluminum armature (footnote 1), the 3000's armature is made of carbon fiber. Even the outer casing material was changed, from aluminum to aluminum oxide. This sintered (fired) ceramic compound has a hardness of 9 Mohs, 1 unit below that of a diamond's 10. The harder a material, the higher its natural resonating frequency; the new case is an attempt to get this out beyond the audible range without having to resort to a diamond case."
So aluminum oxide is really hard stuff. They also make cantilevers out of it also as I recall. Very interesting stuff, thanks so much for sharing your knowledge. |
@edgewear
Ah very enlightening! I wonder what they mean by "ceramic substance" and perhaps that phrase has given rise to the thought it was a ceramic body. I wonder if there are really any practical and real world improvements to the SLM technique that Ortofon is using on their current top tier cartridges. The MC7500 shows that body built from titanium also. If so, I wonder if a system at my level of quality is able to fully portray those improvements.
Funny how these things occur. I recently saw a MC5000 from a UK dealer who obtained it from Ortofon Treasure Trove, and has 50 hours. I am seriously thinking about inquiring and see if they will sell to a buyer in the US. In the past I have had the Cadenza Blue, and appreciated that cartridge along with other cartridges that have sported gemstone cantilevers. The 5000 is fitted with sapphire as I read it, but otherwise is the same as the 3000 MK II.
Worth considering...
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@best-groove
Ah thank you so much. Yes it certainly is informative reading, and provides a good deal of insight. It is my thought that Ortofon always seems to make level headed design choices that are aimed at the performance of the cartridge rather than the mystique and aesthetics of it. As I go through various albums I have to wonder about later generation Ortofon cartridges. I have owned an A90, and to be honest I am not sure I would choose it over this cartridge. If anything, the MC3000 II seems a bit more balanced and even keeled in terms of tonal balance and its ability to express fine detail. I do have my eyes peeled for a MC7500, I will obtain one some day.
Do you know what kind of alloy they are using for the cantilever? It has a matt finish and even a touch of grey to its color. I also understand it is tapered, and I wonder what they have done to this cantilever to improve its performance over a standard aluminum one. Unfortunately no reviews I have found address this, and Ortofon only refers to the cantilever as aluminum. It would be good to know any more info about this, if its out there.
Once again, thanks so much for making the effort and taking the time to create that post. It is greatly appreciated. |
Yikes, I didn't think body materials would lead to such a lively discussion. Given the hardness of the body used on the MC3000 MK II, which the Stereophile review says almost 9 on the Moh Scale of Hardness, while that scale shows titanium being 6. Apparently hardness is only part of the equation for resonance issues that are considered in body design.
Nevertheless, all I was really trying to say is that this is a nice sounding cartridge. In the past I have had the Cadenza Red, Blue, Bronze, original Windfeld, and A90 in my systems. While each of these cartridges had a different presentation, I would say I find this Ortofon to be very close to being on equal footing. With the possible exception of the A90, but that cartridge has a unique presentation and kind of stands apart from other Ortofon cartridges.
It may very well be possible that there are a level of differences that my system is not up to the task of presenting. Actually I find the tables I use to have very similar presentations, and this may be an end result of colorations further down the equipment chain. So lets talk about the system
Speakers JBL 4365 and pair of Velodyne HGS 12 subwoofers
Amplifier AVM Audio AMP Essential monoblocks
Pre-Amplifier Halcro DM 8
Phono Stage Esoteric E-03
Speaker wire Wireworld Eclipse 8
Interconnects Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8
Power cords Pi Audio Group
Power Conditioner TLP Audio TF130 (previous one was a PS Audio P10)
Turntables
Scheu Audio Das Laufwerk No2/Dynavector DV505/Ortofon MC 3000 II or Ikeda 9 Kawami
Well Tempered Reference/ZYX 4D
SOTA Cosmos Eclipse/SME V/Transfiguration Audio Proteus
There are differences in presentation to all three tables, but there are many many similarities. The SOTA is the most expansive and dynamic, while the WTR is a bit more rounded and relaxed, and the Scheu falls closer to the WTR tonally but a bit more defined and dynamic.
Perhaps there are limitations in my gear that homogenize the sound. Perhaps one day I get tired of playing with tables and consolidate them into one top tier table I can afford and call it good. Use the digital rig for casual listening and simplify things with one table and a pair of cartridges. Maybe that happens one day, but probably not next week.
I think the next step is to obtain a different SUT than the ones I have had and see what happens. To be honest this is a casual cartridge, so I don't want to spend multiple thousands on a SUT for a cartridge that cost me $900. But on the other hand, I don't want to kludge the whole thing together either. Perhaps I will look at vintage transformers and see what can be done that way. |
This should be an interesting experiment. I was attempting to purchase the matching T3000 transformer from a seller on UKAudiomart, but he never responded.
In the process of looking around I came across a Conrad Johnson HV1. This is an active head amp but it uses Nuvistor tubes. Very few components do use this gain device, and all of them that I have heard sound remarkable. The price was quite reasonable, so I bought it last night. Should have it in about 5 to 7 days, and we are going to give it a shot with the MC3000.
This seems to be a forgotten head amp but was well received in the day. One owner posted it can be a bit microphonic, I wonder if that is due to the tubes they had installed. I also am curious if it inverts phase like some CJ components do, and if so I will take care of that at the cartridge leads as inverting speaker wires is a pain in the butt.
Should be a grand experiment! |
Thought I would add to this post. Still have the MC3000 MK II here, and use it on a Dynavector DV505 tone arm and Scheu Das Laufwerk No2 table. I also have acquired a MC2000 with T2000 transformer. Expert Stylus refurbished the cartridge and fitted it with their diamond. Still retains stock cantilever, and it is as close as you are going to get to a factory MC2000 at this day and age. It is mounted on a second DV505 arm on the same Scheu table and has a light Supex headshell.
First of all I absolutely love the MC2000, it is as fine a cartridge as I have heard. I might even like it more than my Transfiguration Proteus, even though they are close in overall performance. I use the MC3000 MK II as a casual cartridge, and am going to send it to Expert when this stylus is no longer viable. I have my reservations about who retipped this, and while it performs fine I would be happier if Mr Hodgson worked on it and gave it a bill of health. This cartridge is not as detailed, a bit more relaxed sounding, but has nice tonal balance. Not as dynamically insightful but still very good. An enjoyable cartridge that meets my needs.
I did complete a purchase of a MC5000 that is a Treasure Trove rebuild. Coming from a UK dealer that bought it for personal use and logged less than 100 hours. I am looking forward to it as the gemstone cantilever might provide a bit more sparkle than the MC3000 MK II, and therefore be an excellent alternative once the other cartridge is out of hours. The price was reasonable, so I thought it was worth the effort.
I seem to have a liking for these MC0000 series of cartridges. The MC2000 is one of my favorite. Perhaps a MC7500 can be found, but the current version on Ebay is quite expensive with unknown hours. Too rich for me to gamble on. But perhaps one day I will find one. But until then I can be very content with the MC2000. It is a remarkable piece of engineering.
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@lewm Well perhaps the Gods of Analog will bless me with their favor and a MC7500 in good condition will become available. I certainly will buy one. On Ebay the Japanese one is about $2300 or $2500 and hours are unknown. So I would plan for a trip to Expert Stylus right away, and by the time taxes are levied I am sure it would be a $3K purchase. With Japan being such a humid climate, I have seen lots of cartridges show pitting and other oxidation that is irreversible, so I tend to shy from buying expensive cartridges from there. I would much prefer the MC7500 to come from Europe. Maybe one day I will get lucky.
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@lewm As an example. This MC2000 looks fine till you get to the last image. The close up shows pitting. I have been to Japan twice and the shops are nice, but I am not flying over to make the purchase of a cartridge. I am kind of dependent on the online international selling sites. I also try to avoid gear from costal sites, as you can often aww signs of oxidation.
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@rauliruegas I have not listened to it yet, it is bought and being shipped from the UK. I like the MC3000 MK II, and my understanding is this is the same cartridge with gemstone cantilever. Past experiences have shown I like ruby and sapphire cantilevered cartridges as a whole, so there is a good chance I like this one, especially for a casual use cartridge. I do not expect it to surpass my better cartridges, but for $900 I should get a lot of hours of enjoyment out of it.
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I have my doubts it’s either of that. The marks on the silver portion of the body could be dust. But what is on the panel behind the cantilever looks too close to corrosion for me to chance the purchase.
This is the image of the MC5000 I am buying. This can be seen as dust on the cartridge body and the metal plate for the stylus, which looks significantly different than what is on the MC2000
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