Ceramic insulator cone under phono stage shocker!


I have used small ceramic insulator cones underneath my phono stage for quite some time.
Previous phono was a Gold note ph10 and it did not make ANY audible difference I could detect which way up the cones were so I had left them cone upwards.

When I changed my phono to a Manley Chinook I just left the cones same way.
This afternoon I decided to flip them over so cone down just to see.

I honestly could not and cannot believe the difference!
I may have lost a smidge of low bass but everywhere else is improved in spades.
Much more detail, resolution, air, imaging, dynamics.
Just completely shocking how much better a small change has made.

But I am perplexed why such a huge change on the Chinook where I noted nothing on the ph10?

Any theories here?
6db47fb2 f8db 415d a4f7 49a7b6ed12b0Ag insider logo xs@2xuberwaltz

Showing 50 responses by uberwaltz

Al
You could have something there.
I know one pair of Amperex tubes in it are well used to be polite......

Sounds like a project for tomorrow morning.
Interesting.
No microphonics from either of the 4 tubes inside the Chinook that I could hear at all by performing Almargs suggested test, not even the slightest pop.

It just has to be the difference in the way the vibrations are borne away being much more noticeable through the tube phono.

Whatever it is a great cheap tweak! Lol.
I cannot disagree with the logic of cones down, HOWEVER as I stated in the OP, under my SS PH10 phono I could hear no difference.

So I am more intrigued by that as much as to why they work so well in present orientation on the tube phono.
Thx guys.

Making sense to my poor head now.


Pryso.
I did indeed perform the test with cones down.
However I also knew there were a couple of well used Amperex tubes in it as well.
So I then decided to replace all 4 tubes with brand new Electro Harmonic tubes and test again but still with cones down.
Since discovering the better SQ I have not inverted the cones again.
At this time I am very happy with the SQ, I was more curious as to why not much effect with the ss phono and I think that has been answered.
Geoff
It was a joke.....
Keep taking the tablets......
Jeez guys
How on earth did my thread about ceramic cones under my phono stage morph into the Geoff and Sleepy show?
The king is dead
Long live the king
TBH
I was and still am impressed that it has at least stayed on the topic of isolation of any kind.
The OP of MY THREAD GK  was to answer the question contained within.
That has been addressed to my satisfaction and so no I do not really have any further information to add to this thread in the direction that you and others have now taken it.

I have zero vibration problems with my TT on my rack ( that I am aware of)

Now if you desire to carry on within this thread that is fine as long as it stays vaguely on topic but do NOT make stupid statements about myself and my posts, got it buddy!

No offense.....
Really??
Interesting perspective Katie......
My apologies to all here for lowering myself to Katie's level, had to do a good limbo to get there I admit.

So if anybody has anything on topic and useful to add now would be a good time.

While GK is packing up bdp24 prize we might regain some semblance of order.

Carry on.
Actually I do have to say the NDM does indeed work pretty well in the 3 players I have installed it in so I think you are getting a great deal there @bdp24 .

Nicely played GK.....

👍👍👍
On a deadly serious note just where would the MD Springs reap the biggest benefit?
Under individual components, speakers or the complete rack assembly?
Actually there is an opening for a new title GK;

The Clown Prince : Joker2

You wear it well, Rod says.

😇😇😇
Nice looking stand and fairly priced.
Thx Al.
That is weird.
I had read it and saw nothing in it at all to warrant removal.
Wonder if Agon still having random post removal issues?
Or it was just one of your haters GK.
Can't imagine that though......
Anyways GK, based on memory of your unexplained removed post.
I truly like the idea of losing the rack entirely and if had say just one source would seriously consider it.
But with all my gear there would be no floor left in my room!
And then the rats nest of cables would be on show for the world to see and cats to chew!

So isolation under components in the rack is the best I can shoot for.
Yes I can see the potential pitfalls of putting the complete rack on springs, especially mine which is a 5 shelf high unit, teeter, totter whoops!
Food for thought indeed.
Agreed Geoff
My speakers sit on exactly that, 18x18x2 maple wood boards with three cones under each one.
Sure if you really tried you could still knock them over but I try not to play rugby in my music room any more......
Only have baby Maggie's here ,my room really will not take much larger versions I feel.
And right now I have no need or even desire to find out.

Did I just say that?
Sort of like Tuneland
But without MG...
And a bit more cred.....
😇😇
One area I draw the line at though with any equipment tuning is removing casework or relocating power supplies, transformers etc.

Going to see if can find any larger chunks of wood as I do have a very good table saw in the workshop. Might be more cost effective.
Elizabeth
My rack is home made using 2 inch Butcher Blocks at 24x18 for each shelf.
The 4 legs are stainless all thread with stainless nuts/washers at top/ bottom of each block.
So infinitely adjustable for depth and level precisely.
So all mods to my equipment work on top of butcher blocks.
Likewise the effect cannot be separated except at speakers.
Everything sits on a tiled solid concrete floor which I think helps any boom,or resonance issues to start with.
My TT sits in a 40lb slab of solid birch and curly maple. Would love to make one from Cocobolo but holy moly the cost!

Looked at Gaboon Ebony and Katalox blanks too but also spendy.
Thanks for posting Elizabeth.
I find that very intriguing.
I presume by the pen blanks that would be something you obtain from a hobby shop?
Sounds like a cheap fun way of making some tuning adjustments with not a lot of cash outlay.
Elizabeth
Thank you so much for the woodworking lessons! Seems I know not much about wood at all.
The links to the two sites are extremely useful.
Cocobolo is very well regarded by aftermarket turntable plinth manufacturers I know and now I see why quite so pricey.
However compared to some of the money I have wasted in the past a couple dozen pen blanks is not going to break the bank.
So just the difference in size of the blanks had an audible impact?
Interesting.
I have on the way to me ;
Cocobolo knife blanks.
African Blackwood pen blanks
Bocote bowl blank. This is 6x6x3 which I WAS going to cut up into 1.5" knife blank sizes, maybe not now....
@slaw .

Very much on topic imho.

Now you have me thinking that I need to address my ML sub too.
It is actually sitting on some of those little wood blocks with grooved rubber either side( totally forget the make).

I am sure there is mileage to be had there as well for myself.

But it is nice to hear someone else having a big ah ha moment over something fairly simple as well.

Off to look in my odds n sods box see if I can come up with anything before spending any!


Geoff you may be right but I just have this vision of the sub boinging round the room on it's springs......

😯😯😯
👍👍👍

Seriously I had a very good result now I trawl my memory banks in my ht rig years ago.

Had this huge fugly 15 inch sub , boy could it move some air but very wooly sound.
Raised it up on spikes and a huge improvement all round. It still chuffed some at the port but a lot tighter response.
Well I found some huge spikes in my cupboard, not sure what they came from but was able to adapt them to the bottom of my ML sub.
Have also some nice metal cups for them to sit into with a rubber backing for the floor side which as it is sitting on a solid concrete floor that is tiled is about as good as I can get for now on the cheap.

Distinct improvement in the bass department, tighter more distinct notes more easily discernible as separate notes. And it appears to have merged even better into the system, I really could not tell from my seating position that there is a sub in the system previously but now absolutely not even when looking right at it and knowing that is where the deep bass is coming from my ears tell me it is not.

Works for me so far!
@slaw 
I would definitely be finding a home/ use for those Stillpoints too.
Sounds like they are working well for you and that is what counts.
Coupling and decoupling at the same time may truly be the key.
GK
So are you saying in your opinion by placing springs under my sub instead of the now spikes/cups I may find an even greater increase in SQ?
That would be a nice move if true.
Maybe overused by now but more mind boggling results.
Raised my little Denon au320 SUT up on 3 ceramic cones points downwards and probably an even larger SQ improvement than on the Chinook.
It is like a layer of grunge that I never even knew was there was just removed.
Clarity and detail just took a huge leap forward.
Makes you wonder just how much more is left hiding in those little grooves to be discovered.

I guess the transformer in this SUT was a pretty noisy beggar!

Sitting here with a massive grin from ear to ear!
Penny smart and pound foolish.
Actually I prefer my old English saying.

" look after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves"
I am still a little perplexed by both DH and SR claim to use their cones/couplers in either two up/ one down or two down /One up configuration.

Does not make a lot of sense to myself.

But if I had a set I would naturally give it a try.

However between $70 and $250 for a set vs $1 each for the ex Ham radio ceramic cones I am presently using?
I agree Slaw but one has to draw a line in the sand somewhere or its just crazy world time.

Between my $1 ceramic cones and the pieces of exotic wood I have arriving today I think I have more than enough combos to literally explode my head from the inside out!
It was not Golden Sound’s claim for the one up two down configuration. That was some customer’s claim. Trust me, the “all points down” configuration is correct. 🤗
I beg to disagree, it’s right there in the installation guide.


https://www.goldensound.com/hd-cone-installation-giudes
Exactly Elizabeth.
Tbh the success I have had with my el cheapo ceramic cones gives me a similar opinion on what I could possibly expect.
For example when I placed 3 under my SUT I was expecting a gain but not in the magnitude it gave. However it was extremely positively addictive!

Sigh! I suppose with that being said I should also try 2 down/ 1 up with those too.......

So many variables, so much music,so little time!
Have been experimenting with the wood today, only had the African Blackwood delivered Sat.

I still prefer my ex ham radio cones points down under my phono, SUT and CD transport.
The Blackwood lost some dynamics and poise, did thicken up the bass a bit, maybe too wooly in all honesty. This is using 3 pen blanks in place of 3 ceramic cones.

Now where I DO like the Blackwood is under the Pioneer reel to reel.
That needed a little bass boost and it got it and a nice increase in overall gain it sounds like, not sure quite how.
But the presentation overall appears boosted all over but not in an overblown way.

Waiting for the Cocobolo......
Permanent Vacation?
Wait sorry that was Aerosmith.

I should be so lucky!
Absolutely hilarious
And laughably stupid!

The prude police just removed my post alluding to the existence of the prude police.......

Watch this space.
Eek! 
Mix,n,match??
Argh, even more potential combos.
One wood, two wood, cones up, cones down.
Mind implosion.
Well I have to say that the set of Baby Promethean springs I bought from GK seem to be working out really well under my ML sub.

Almost appears to have added another lower level to the already well integrated bass from the subs to my Maggie's.
They are a keeper under the sub.

So far......
Yes
4 springs one at each corner
Had time this afternoon to experiment with the Cocobolo pen blanks that arrived while I was working in the Pacific Northwest.

Still prefer my $1 ex ham radio ceramic cones points down under phono, SUT , CD transport and Jolida Black Ice bass expander.

Cannot really tell much difference between the African Blackwood or Cocobolo under the reel to reel player tbh.

Maybe I will take up pen turning.........
Not sure what you are getting at there Geoff.

I have a massive $22 invested in .... 22 ceramic cones that are working out VERY well for myself in my system....
I am just preferring the sq with my overly expensive ex ham radio ceramic cones for now.
Still have all the blanks and will carry on experimenting at my leisure.
I'm ALWAYS a happy camper Geoff but....
I MAY try your springs under the phono just because......