CD v Streamed

Suum cuique.

No not really, it’s a measured fact.


Cheers George

If ones wants to almost mimic vinyl using cd, just put a 1kohm resistor across left and right channels of the cd/dac output.
This ruins the channel separation from 120db, down to about 30db right across the board (should be worse in the highs and especially the bass) but it’s a one resistor exercise.

What you’ll find is now playing a CD especially the old nasty left/right ping pong ones (early Beatles etc) suddenly they sound more fleshed out because you are "monoizing" them for want of a better word The voice instead of just in one channel are now in both which gives it extra body. 

It would be even closer to vinyl if you were to really develop a proper passive network on the output of the cd, to follow a vinyl cartridge’s channel separation from 20hz to 20khz .

Cheers George

Right now, my analog rig has a slight edge over CD with some records. I guess I will not be able to post my comparison of streaming to vinyl here since this post is titled CD vs Streaming. What an exciting time for audio.

Of course you can post it up, I’ve done the comparison, and yes while analog is good, it’s maximum of 30db channel separation at 1khz and falls off to almost 10db (mono) in the bass, and around 15db in the highs, it can’t match the 120db channel separation of CD top to bottom.
The sound stage imagining and depth perspective with CD because of that channel separation, is sooo much more precise, wider, and has far better imaging on the outside the speakers too when it’s called for when "anti phase" notes have been deliberately recorded to put them there.

Cheers George

They have magic electricity over there that turns compression and brickwalling into stunning detail and clarity unavailable elsewhere

Jersey City, I heard that also, maybe the "Dynamic Range Data Base" site should only accept comparisons of the same CD/Albums regardless of version vintage be listed/downloaded from there only.😉

Cheers George

Here is Stereophile's music writer/reviewer (Tom Fine) that also believes what I been saying about the best CD's being the first release issues being uncompressed and sounding the best, and the later issues being "crunched dynamically" and says it here with the Crosby Stills Nash and Young  Déjà Vu  album 

"The first CD is the original album, sourced from the original tapes. Chris Bellman at Bernie Grundman Mastering used a light hand at the mastering console and kept the original dynamics and tonal qualities. It's superior to the two prior issues on 5" shiny plastic: It's not so much that they were stereotypically bad CDs (although the 1994 reissue, made at the dawn of the awful Loudness Wars, is somewhat dynamics-crunched); it's that this version is a really good demonstration of how good a CD can sound. Spin it on a top-grade player or through a good DAC and behold the state of the studio-recording art in late 1969." 

 https://www.stereophile.com/

 https://www.stereophile.com/content/revinylization-18-d%C3%A9j%C3%A0-vu-all-over-again

Cheers George

mofojo

There’s another thread on this, just look for the "CD vs.same CD ripped to HD" title thread posted yesterday.

Cheers George

I’ve only been streaming for a few weeks but noticed that Qobuz - hi-rez included, has fairly substantial compression applied. I witnessed this on pretty much everything I have listened to. It sounds fine at lower volume levels. But turn it up and... ack.

Now you know why I’m so anti compression, and started this thread and even more this one
" Stop compressing our bloody music!!!!!!!!!!! " https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/stop-compressing-our-bloody-music?highlight=stop%2Bcompressin...
No sounds in life are compressed, why do it to our music, and force us to listen to it
Cheers George

Compression? How about cd vs vinyl.

If you look at the dynamic range data base https://dr.loudness-war.info/, vinyl has the better DR figures also, just like the early versions of older cd issues before they get compressed.

Where cd kills vinyl is in the channel separation, with vinyl you’ve got at best 30db of channel separation and that’s at 1khz at 16khz and at 50hz it’s much worse, almost mono. Where with cd you have 120db channel separation right across the audio band 20hz to 20khz

Cheers George

do you feel a need to “re-educate” people that they shouldn’t be enjoying playback that you subjectively view as inferior?  Let’s keep in mind that we are not talking about something like the difference between mp3 and lossless here. We are essentially comparing relatively small variances in lossless playback

And yet we "audiophiles" of this website spend thousands of dollars on interconnects speaker wire etc etc  for just incremental improvements.

What we ask is the music itself and the way it's sold to us is also involved with that improvement path and not to go backward with being compressed the later it's recorded or being streamed

Cheers George 

If you are experiencing different dynamics that is down to the master used

We've been saying that all along also, as they usually use the later versions/re-issues of albums which are normally more compressed than the originals.

But what we want from different streaming companies, is a 1min live streaming size in mb, to see how it compares to CD's 10.6mb for 1min

Cheers George 

Wow that's what I call being persistent, but as you now also find the vary different DR's of the same album.
And when you look at the Dynamic Range data base site https://dr.loudness-war.info/, it's mostly the older recordings with the better DR, and this is what I do to get the CD with the best DR use it's cat no and go search for a cheap used one on one of the used CD sites, ebay etc etc

As for the compression of the streamed ones, it would still be great if someone can measure the 1min size of the streamed version vs the 10.6mb size of a 1min CD being played
   
Cheers George

And, you can’t be sure that the version of a piece that you’re listening to on the CD was engineered the same as the version you’re getting while streaming. Probably wasn’t.

If you can find out your streamed versions cat no. then compare it to other released versions here https://dr.loudness-war.info/
Usually the later the version the more compressed it is, and that’s mainly what streaming companies use.

Cheers George

jafant13,429 posts
georgehifi

Great idea for a thread. The measured proof would become provided via these server/streamer companies.

Yes it would be good, but nobody as yet has come forth with any measured proof, to the threads opening paragraph question.

Uncompressed CD audio will take about 10.6mb per minute to play, to stream that takes big space and dollars to stream an album, see what your streaming company’s takes mb per minute to stream, find out and post up here.

Cheers George

I am not sure why the need to choose.  I prefer CDs
However, do we need to argue it?

I think so to get some "measured proof" of what so many of us hear.
Instead of these continual threads that pop up asking which is better, but with no real answers to give.

Cheers George

@georgehifi - has your friend at Sound Stage Au done a review on either Australian made, The Gieseler Company DAC or Lenehan Audio loudspeakers?

Not sure, have a bit of search though here,
https://www.soundstageaustralia.com/
he’s done a few, and if older than around 4 years look at the 6 Moons site where he was head reviewer, before starting up SoundStage Australia

Cheers George

Now that you have posted your friend system, this is how this thread is going to end up….

I was asked you putz!

I want music listening enjoyment.
Sorry to troll your scientific quest.

Good don’t be a part of it and stay on the thread

This seem some are just afraid of being shown they are listening to compression if proved correct.

crn3371185 posts05-10-2021 9:47amOP, what device(s) do you use to stream? What streaming service? I hear no difference and much prefer the variety offered by streaming over buying physical media.

I do it here at a friends place as he has access to many pieces of eqipment, Edgar Kramer ex 6 Moons reviewer now owner of Sound Stage Au, this is his own system.

• • Speakers — Wilson Audio Alexia Series 2,
  • Amplifier — Gryphon Audio Antileon EVO
  • Preamplifier — Supratek Cortese, Lightspeed Attenuator LDR passive
  • Sources — Digital:432EVO High-End Music Server Roon Core, Yamaha CD-S2100 transport, Totaldac d1-direct DAC. Analogue: Transrotor Crescendo with Konstant Studio controller, Reed 1X Tonearm with upgraded internal wiring, Shelter Harmony cartridge, The Funk Firm Houdini cartridge decoupler, Supratek Cortese & REDGUM Audio RGPH2 phono stages
  
  

At the moment he has a $8kaud Auralic Altair G2.1 Streamer to listen to, I "may" get around there this week to hear it.

Cheers George

Why are there the always the same clowns that have nothing constructive to say, instead of trying to sort this out, and stop the multitude of threads on the subject.

As it will if streamers here check the mb’s of a 1min live music stream, list the album /performer and album cat no. of what they’re streaming. Then it can be checked if their streaming company is compressing or they use compressed version of the album.

Cheers George

It’s why the opening of the thread says.

"Uncompressed CD audio will take about 10.6mb per minute to play, to stream that takes big space and dollars to stream an album, see what your streaming company’s takes mb per minute to stream, find out and post up here."

Lets get some hard measured facts, instead of hearsay banter, yet again back and forth.
This is why I want members participation to get those proven hard facts from their streaming companies, and post them up

Still doesn’t mean that the best version is streamed as many of the new re-issues are woefully compressed, the only way to find that is find which issue they stream and compare to older issues here https://dr.loudness-war.info/

Cheers George