cart measurement vs quoted spec


Hi,
I'm a bit puzzled by some cart measurements performed with the ACOUSTECH test record, using HP oscilloscope and using (differential connection) through ML 326S phono-modules.

No loading (47k), measured on XLR pre-outputs. The following transpired:
Left vs. Right = *- 2dB* @ 1kHz 7cm/s lateral (mono track), *spec = <0,2dB!*
Left vs. Right = on 1kHz 7cm/s vertical out of phase track, clearly NOT EVEN CLOSE to out of phase!
1 kHz left channel only *- 16dB* leakage to right! *Spec = >28dB @ 1 kHz!*
1 kHz right channel only *-10dB* leakage to left! *Spec = >28dB @ 1 kHz!*

This seems a most disappointing showing indeed. Let me hasten to say that all variations with regards to anti-skate, VTA, VTF, Azimuth and Zenith, were attempted for any optimisation.

I shall not yet disclose the make, which is a VERY well known brand, and their TOP of the range offering.

Has any one got some explanation for how such a major variation can be the case?!

There might just be some folks out there trying there darntest by NEVER getting their apparent alignment problem fixed, please note the various threads, ---- and it might be a cart way out of quoted tolerance?

I have also noted that in this instance, MAJOR Azimuth (+/- 2 deg), VTA, VTF, changes had absolutely MINOR measured effects!
The 'biggest' in this case was 'Zenith' by some 0.5mm left turn to compensate for a 'minor' out of centre cantilever (~ 0.25mm off-set to the left).

Tonality and such is NOT really affected, BUT distortion with massed instruments/orchestra etc. i.e. as soon as things get 'busy' the problems start.

Greetings,
Axel
axelwahl

Showing 3 responses by glai

I meaured channel match + crosstalk on PC1, ultraeminent and titan I. All performed to spec. L & R less 1db difference (assuming phono stage gain is matched). Titan I was best in channel separation with 34db crosstalk on both channels tested with Analogue test LP (track 2 and 3) while mounted on the Phantom. On the Davinci with no Azimuth adjustment, still a manageble 29-30db. The azimuth sweet zone is tiny and easy to jump thru.

I did not measure the frequency response of the cartridge.
I also used the Ulti. Analog test LP.

With titan i, phantom 2, tw raven ac, tricon phono cable into Allnic phono. I played track 2 and 3 and measured the output of the phono with PAA3 meter. I also tried using the Einstein TT choice and results are not sig. diff..

Playing the L track: Recorded 1V output at L channel, 15-25mV ( fluctuating) R channel

PLaying the R track: Recorded 1.1V output at R channel, 15-25mV ( fluctuating) L channel

I took the average value of the crosstalk so approx. 20mV. I was told to take the lower value because the higher value indicated noise in the cart.. If my wife tried to annoy me and turn on the washer & dryer, the cart puts out additional random 5-10mV. For more accuracy, you can use a filter to get rid of noise. I should apply the output ratio to the crosstalk measurement to be more precise. I am just too lazy and want to get the azimuth in the ballpark.

Crosstalk: 20log 0.02/1= -33.9db for one channel;
20log 0.02/1.1= -35.6db

Channel matching 20 log 1.1V/1V = 0.82db

This is not that accurate because I assumed the gain of the phono stage is perfectly matched. I should reverse the channel on the phono to idenfy the gain mismatch in the phono. The tracks itself may not be perfectly matched too.

My math is crude and I am not an engineer. Please correct me as needed. Always love to learn.

What's surprising to me in this exercise, I can get the most channel separation on the Phantom, second on the triplanar, no azimuth adjustment on the Davinci. Both the triplanar and Davicni throws a wider soundstage than the Graham. When optimize, Graham arm sounds very focused like some SS gear.

I cannot contribute to using an oscilloscope. Have not used one since college.

I think -15db crosstalk at 1Khz is poor. Once you lose it, you are not getting it back. I would interested in how the numbers compare at 10Khz, 15Khz and 20Hz.

The window for the >25db azimuth is small, it is easy to jump right pass it. If I make big adjustment, it never went < 20db As the numbers improve, make smaller and smaller adjustments until your back, neck, eyes gives out or reached equal and minimized crosstalk.

With the my sonic lab ultraeminent on the davinci with no adjustment, I managed a -28 to 29db crosstalk on both channels. I was either lucky to have a near vertical stylus or QC is very good. Same goes for airtight and Lyra. I will check out the dynavector next week.

After this exercise, most will see that adjusting azimuth to minimize summed output amplitude of the L & R channel playing opposing phase recording do exactly just that. It compensate for channel mismatch anywhere along the sound reproduction chain: cart, phono, pre, amp, speaker, rm acoustics ( unequal dist. to speakers). It does nothing to put the needle in the middle of the groove.