Eldartford- I missed that last sentence. Hey- If it works, and you're happy: don't change it!! Just build your airplane around it. Maybe if you keep it in the corners, your wife won't notice? Tell her it's an acoustic treatment to eliminate spurious trepidary bi-peds. That gets 'em every time. |
That's all that Bose ever had going for it: marketing hype. The whole concept is a lie. As a Sound tech: I'm familiar with a lot of music venues. Everyone that I've ever been to that sounded worth a nickel had sound treatment behind and along the sides of the platform/sound stage. Usually a series of curtains to absorb the side reflections/resonances. Same overhead to reduce or eliminate ceiling reflections. At a rock concert: if the rear and side walls weren't treated- you'd hear more of the stage monitors(out of phase) than you would of the mains. In the Bose ads going back to the 80's, the huge red arrows that represented reflected sound were supposed to be what you heard at a live concert. If the venue had that much reflected sound: it would be an ACOUSTIC NIGHTMARE(like the old Orlando Sports Stadium, UGH)!! McIntosh used to(maybe they still do) test almost every mainline manufacturer's speakers in their audio lab every year. Bose was consistantly the top producer of intermodulation distortion(the most noticable/irritating kind)in those test reports. The concept of causing a 5 1/4" driver to reproduce everything from 20 to 20kHz with an active EQ is flawed to begin with. It can't help but generate IM! Thanks for letting me vent. |
Bose 901s can be EQ'd using any graphic Equalizer with enough boost at both ends of the spectrum. The DEQ 2496 just does so automatically and in the digital domain, plus compensating for the curve of the room(which the Bose EQ does not). It won't do anything for the intermodulation distortion that results, or the fact that the speakers can't possibly creat an accurate image. That not an opinion- it's estabished fact, based on measurable data(the IM) and over 30 years of experience with the design(mine and a multitude of others), using live music as a reference. I WILL grant that using the Behringer and eliminating the Bose piece would probably make the system somewhat more listenable. |
Hi Eldartford- I envy you for your soundroom. If I had a room that big, I'd be torn between using it as a listening room, or rebuilding my cars/bike in there(too many loves, not enough room). I've a number of recordings that were done personally, and if anything Bose makes/made could reproduce the original acoustic with ANY semblance of accuracy/reality: You're right- I WOULD be very surprised! Their very method of operation and design preclude that possibility. If you have succeeded in actually reproducing a realistic recording venue, and proper imaging of the instruments within it with those speakers- Your next move should be a trip to Vegas, Monte Carlo and Atlantic City while your luck lasts. You wouldn't be interesting in selling that listening room, would you? |
Good old Amar's first concoction was the "2601" and had that many speakers(26, or was it 28?) arrayed on the surface of what looked like 2 segments(eighths) of a huge grapefruit that sat in the corners of the room. Of course, the speakers were the same midrange size as he settled on for the 901. I'm not aware of a professional array type that they build outside of the 801s. Shaped the same, but lacking the single driver on what is the front of the 901. For portability, the 801s are hard to beat. I've used them in several venues(small), usually just for speach. They don't project very far(compared to a horn system, and lack any real bottom end. |
But none of those current speaker designs are trying to reproduce everything from 20Hz to 20kHz with that same one driver. The laws of physics just don't allow it without distortion. Perhaps one day the 901 will be produced with a cone than acts as a perfect piston while reproducing all those octaves at the same time. But then- It still won't really matter to me, save perhaps on an academic level. BUT- If they're the wind beneath(and faster air above) your wings: fly with them!! Just don't get too close to the Sun. Some guy named Icarus established that doesn't work very well either. |
I don't think I've read any ratings on those smallish woofer systems that claim much below 40-50hz. Nothing in what I consider the bottom octave. And you are absolutely right on two counts: they still beat their hearts out trying, and that's why subs have become so popular. The small woofers in large arrays are a different story. I've not suffered bass-envy since 1981. I built a pair of 8' (1/4 the wavelength of what I wanted),tapered, folded, damped, transmission lines and filled them with the 10" driver that Milo Nestorovic used in his bass system. I needed something that could blend with my Acoustat Model IIIs(had to be fast, and they still work great with my Maggies). The 16hz pedal notes(32ft stop) on the Crystal Clear direct to disk recording of Virgil Fox playing Toccata and Fugue in D minor on the Grand Ruffatti have cracked the ceilings of two of my listening rooms. Expensive, but- Ya gotta love it! |
It's been my experience, and my point in this discourse, that they have never sounded like live music by any stretch of the imagination. That(live music) is my reference, and will always remain so. I'm much more a sound technician/engineer than an "audiophile". The pedal notes that I referred to are not so much audible, as they are felt in the gut. When I said, "cracked my ceilings," I was being quite literal. |
You're right about the 801 appearing to be a 901 turned around. The interesting thing is: The 801s have no speakers firing at the back wall(8 drivers, total). That means NO reflected sound, ONLY direct. Their operational concept is the exact opposite of the 901(and good old Amar's claim of how sound is propagated at a concert). I've never used any cheap horns in a professional setting, and hate them in home systems(ie: Klipsch). The Acapella and Avantgarde systems are a different story altogether in a home. The pro horn systems I built while in business utilized Electro-Voice or Gollehon drivers/horns, and did an excellent job. All the live violins/violas/celloes/double basses I've heard in person have been "unplugged." Ah: It's my favorite time of day! I'm going to go bathe in sound waves for a while. |
First of all: OOPS!! I've been calling the pro speaker the, "801." Shoulda been, "802." To answer your #1) Sure- they've corrected the SPEAKER for freq response(in an anechoic chamber), and generated all that IM distortion in the process(very measurable fact). They DID NOT correct it for every room that it will be used in. Perhaps you're familiar with a book called, 'Elements of Acoutical Engineering' written by a Harry Olsen, and published by D. Van Nostrand(back in 1957)? On page 32 there is a diagram of the 7 reflections and/or image sources that always result from a speaker being placed near three non-parallel boundaries(a corner) in a rectangular room. I think you'll agree that describes most applications we are familiar with in stereo listening? I'm not going to fill this page with the entire treatise, but the results are always major notches in response. Time domain aberrations and a total lack of stable imaging as a result of those same boundary effects are covered in the early 70's Journal of Audio Engineering Society articles of Roy Allison/Bob Berkowitz and later by Glyn Adams' "Time Dependence of Loudspeaker Power Output in Small Rooms"(JAES 1989/Vol.37/No4). Every room (those that might be identical notwithstanding) the 901's are placed in will yield different results(certainly- all speakers will, but not nearly to the degree of the Bose where 88.9% of the output is directed at these boudaries). Let's remember that you have circumvented one major flaw by using the DEQ-2496 and(at least) equalized the system at your listening spot(don't know if you moved the mic around the room and averaged the response). Keep in mind that we are talking about sound waves that will be affected by whatever is behind/under/next to the 901, including whether the wall is plaster and lath or sheetrock, framed or concrete, windows/curtains near by, the distance from those boundaries, etc., and not blue and red arrows in a slick ad. I really feel like we have sufficiently beaten this dead horse. Like I've said before: If you like 'em, you can have 'em, and my share too! |
