Blu Ray over/under $

I was at CES this past week and thoroughly attended all the demos and presentations on Blu ray and HD -DVD as well as the players. Thought I'd share the info I came across.

1. Blu Ray is using their extra disk space to introduce certain features. a. Educational- so ina ovie the dec of independence appears- you have the option of clicking a button on the declaration and getting history of the declaration of independence. ( this was in the demo). You can stop Sin City and join in in the killing spree as a game participant. ( an almost exact quote and was on the demo). You can have alive discourse with the director during the film ( also a direct example- the interpreation here is that the internet plays a role.) This for me is all a big waste. Obviously thats an opnion. Players- lots of blu ray players are being introduced by MANY manufacturers- all the players I saw started at 1800 but perhaps there is one at 1000. Blu Ray titles will be released starting in June or so. About 60 titles to be released. Price points for the disks are likely to be higher than current DVDs, but no one is going into specifics.

2. HD-DVD- Will release first with both players and titles in March. Two players will be 499 and 799. Two other manufacturers are releasing players as well. 30 titles to be released in March with 200 by JAnuary 1, 2007 was what I wastold. Cost of HD-DVD disk is one dollar over the current DVD price. The two sided disks with standard def DVD on one side and hd-dvd on the other will be about three dollars higher or so. That is an extrapolation of read betwwen the line info I got. NOT an exact quote.

3. PS3 is freaky. It is so unbeleivably real. Fraky to watch. Fortunately I am not into that stuff. But wow.

4. Problems- 1080P 1920 x 1080 displays are being released this year both in larger LCD sizes and Plasmas as well. These are new. However, current cable and satellite signal resolution is NOT true HD and is pegged by DISH at 1240 x 1080 to save bandwidth. Therefore the true value of a 1080P display goes unrealized for that type of viewing. Only hi def DVDs can truely make use of the displays fully. In fact, sub standard resolution HD signals may actually look worse on a 1080P display relative to a 720P display. There is hope in that some displays, and recently demoed cble type set top boxes will auto detect the resolution being fed to it from the source and auto adjust for best picture. This will likely be a key feature as we see divergence between hi def DVDs and lower def "HD" signals from Comcast and dish etc. Also, there are significant HDMI transmission/handshake issues related to the ability of the DVD player/receiever/ and display to accurately decode color etc. Early adoption of 1080P displays could be problematic. I also attended both DTS-HD demo as well as Dolby-HD demo. It is unclear to me that ANY receivers available at this time can fully decode the hi res audio codec as well. The feeds I saw at CES for the 1080P were mostly hard drive loops and an occasional blu ray feed.

The studio backing is about 50/50 movie titles and blu rays features as displayed to me arent important or desitable. Their pricing is higher than HD-DVDs options. The format war is a loser for the industry as a whole as it devalues the 1080 displays greatly.

From a volume of title availability standpoint, on January 1st 2007, HD-DVD will have more titles out than Blu Ray. My info is from both camps in preaon at CES. Not that I care all that much. It isnt a matter of lists my friend, its a matter of title volume, and the 90% to 10% ratio you are suggesting isnt representative of the reality of title/movie availability. If that were true, there wouldnt be any format war at all.

BTW- CNET is not a good source of info. I watached their live broadcasts from CES and the reporters really dont have a handle on consumer electronics. From your involvment at avsforum.com, you should know this. The Toshiba players I saw at CES werent taped up blah blah blah. It really isnt as you are desrcribing it. The release date is March 2006 by press announcement. Previous delays were due to several factors including a coming together on certain standards which you are likely unaware of. In fact, the only difference now between the two camps is the physical media based on these newly agreed upon standards, forced by HPs threat to include support for HD-DVD unless certain consitions of standards were met by Blu ray. The game is not quite out what you make it to be Mr Ears. But hey-March is just around the corner....

I dont mind a litle friendly banter over the whole Bluray/HD-DVD thingee- so I'll play devils advocate.

1. People will want to buy DVDs of the movies they want to see. If the Blockbuster hits ( if there are any) in 2006 come from HD-DVD aligned studios, people will buy the player that will display it, assuming they are even interested in hi def DVDs at all or even care or understand.

2. The Blu Ray players start at 2x the price of HD-DVD players , and most that I saw were at 1800 bucks. ( yes I saw one player at 1000._) There are MANY more blu ray manufacturers of players, and many more mouths to feed as well. The Blu Ray disks cost per disc, despite a few off the mark quotes, are definetly more expensive to produce and will sell at a higher price point than HD-DVDs, at least intially. Or someone is gonna take a loss. Average American Will not go with the more expensive option. It doesnt work that way on the whole, and online forum members who may be more tech savvy and interested in blu-ray capabilities and features are a pimple on the larger scale of reality.

3. HD-DVD can be stamped on the B side with a standard def DVD. HUGE advantage. That means I can buy an HD-DVD today and be ready for tomorrow. While still be cool with my current equipment. this is a BIG deal.

I think there are definite bucks in XBOX and PS3 ( I am still freaked by that PS# demo-you had to see the thing)- but I do believe that fundamentally its about movie titles and what consumers want to rent and buy. It is NOT a 90/10 split with regards to title availability.

4. Microsoft has been clear that they won't support blu-ray. And When the most ubiqutous operating system in the world ( like it or not) decides something like this, it obviates a whole lot of other players in the game as far as their affected markets.

Hi Ears. Certainly not end of story! I was at CES and saw all of the demos. What you are saying is NOT the true picture of reality. Only a small piece.

Also,the larger consortium of players might easily create problems and already has! HP forced blu-ray to change their standards by threatening to leave-so Sony had to relent on an issue they said they would never change to keep HP in the game. That is but one example. Besides, all of the hardware manufacturers are now COMPETITORS with each other. The losers could VERY EASILY start making hd-dvd players for instance. The BR camp has too many mouths to feed and not everyone is gonna win. I still think pricepoints and title availability will win the day. The only X factor out there is the whole PS3 and XBOX factor. I saw the PS3 demos- they are freaky good, especially in those 5.1 surround moving chair thingees. Wow.

I agree that Play Station three rocks- I saw it myself. It gives a superior gaming experience than xbox 360 IMO as a truely disinterested third party. PS3 is a better product and obviously is a key Sony/Blu Ray advantage.

Still, I think the HD-DVD/blu-Ray issue is not so easy to determine a winner. With a split on movie titles and cheaper price points on movies and players, HD-DVD cannot be counted out easily. Lets see what happens...

The writing is far from being on the wall for all of the reasons I have enumerated, but time will tell. I only hope that ONE of the two formats makes it as far as DVD titles. The DVD rental market is very important in this. If BlockBuster and Netflix, for example, elect not to purchase Hi Def DVD titles in the volume they would need to satisfy customers, for example, hi def DVDs for the rental market won't make it. This is only one example of some significant scenarios that could easily torpedo the Hi Def DVD. Blu-Ray cost for players and disks right now is a guarnteed loser. But that could change.

I bought a DVD player at Sears for 32 dollars about a month ago for a back up CD player in one of my casual listening systems. But it plays DVDs just fine. 32 dollars vs 1800 or 1000. Last year, new vinyl outsold SACD and DVD-A combined. Let's see what happens.... ( BTW- niether side will do well at the beginning of release dates for sure)

Mr F-Lamb- I am wondering if you have ever seen an HD-DVD/Blu Ray DVD next to a standard DVD on decent displays?

I know you wont believe me, but there isnt a very big difference. I can only assure you that I can see some difference, but not that much. Now on the 65 inch 1080P Panasonic Plasma, may be the difference will be more apparent-

but it is hard to sell folks on something that is more expensive ( understatement) for not much of a perceived difference. When do you think Hd-DVD/Blu Ray players will hit 100 dollars ( or 32 dollars for that matter?) And lets see what a bluray disc costs-or even if BB will rent them at the same price.

Based on December 2005 The Perfect Vsion Gary Mearson article, many of the 1080P displays are not capable of truely displaying 1080P signal or receieveing it. HDMI is as yet an unsettled standard and true costs of any upgraded format and players are yet to be seen.

I am sayin that a current DVD on a decent display with a decent DVD player si really good. A Hi Def DVD may not be better enough in Picture quality for people to feel they need to purchase anything other than what they purchase or rent now.

Twinaudio- Actually Alexis Park and St Topez is pretty much for audiophiles. AS you know these are the CES venues that are SOLELY for audiophiles and is one of the few places where you can hear the Green Mountains, Silverl;ines, and Merlins in one place. Certainly not for the masses and definetly for audiophiles. Just trying to get you more up to speed.

Mr. F-Lamb- I tried to sell you but there weren't any buyers.

I have doubts about hi def DVDs making it in the long run. AS far as hi def DTS and Dolby- currently available data stream rates arent fully utilized in almost all soundtracks and after sitting throguh both dolby HD and DTS HD demos at CES- I cant tell any difference at all.

I do like the DTS 2006 demo disk though- quite the cool freebie.

In response to the last post, CES is not solely for the mass market although it certainly makes the news. No sense going into this but suffice to say that the content is wide and varied with different intents and purposes.

Blu ray is just one aspect of many video technologies all in different stages of development that were presented at CES and in fact other shows as well. SED technology for example has no release date and no availability. Lots of floor space and talk at CES though.