Gee... I really appreciate the input folks. Truly. I do appreciate the input about the Cable company....been therre, done that....will again. Doubtless. Great way to addition things beforehand....
I suppose I should mention the source and speakers too, although I was holding beck there as to not taint the input.... I'm using a Sony SCD xa 777 es SACD PLAYER IN TWO CHANNEL PREDOMINATELY. . . a pair of Phase Tech PC 10.5 Towers, (all original but play flawlessly, apart form their inherent deficiencies, but on the whole great units for their cost, 2200.00 new), and a Velodyne CHT 10 INCH 100 WPC sub.
I know I'm lacking in the speaker end and sub as well. . . but hey, ya gotta startt somewhere, huh?
I'm adding very soon a MIT 3 RCA for the CD to pre link. . . and am inclined to go with the same brand throughout....possibly not the same model, but same brand....
I'm on an island with my ambitions for testing future wires it looks like. No one has made mention of the Synergistic, or Nirvana. I felt better hearing Audience mentioned, as well as Cardass GR, and Nordost Quattro's.... Thanks for that. I was feeling a bit out of place there for a time....I've had little faith in wires for the most part. Especially costly ones. . . but hearing is believeing....and it was an Audience XLR in place of an old cheap XLR of mine that turned my head around....
So OK. Purist it is....didn't like the speaker cables I tried, but perhaps the IC's are different. . . and a nod to Acoustic Zin ? is it? so I'm figuring tha that ought to cover it for a time....and thank you all for your time and consideration....oh, yeah, and most valued experiences.
I'll add those mentioned above and 'see' for myself...figuring the addition of loudspeakers is not going to change waht is being supplied, only reproduce it....so giving the best signal to the loudspeakers is the focus for the time being....
anything else I should know about in terms of IC'S IN YOUR OPINION (S) ?...ONCE MORE YOU ALL HAVE MY DEEPEST APRECIATION FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORTS... |
...as it turns out... the Synergistic Research resolution ref x2, active sheilded became the choice for the main link, pre to amp. balanced. Pricey but worth it. they bested the SX Ltds in the overall... the SX however was/is quite the ambient retreval champ. A phenominal SS envelope, and great harmonics, it lacked in the lower regions in my system and was edged out by the SR RR x2 active XLRs... though not by much and there was a compromise or two as well with the SRs. there are always some compromises.. |
Actually, I got the Syn Res Refs back in Sept 2006. It took me nearly five months to go through ten sets or more of ICs prior to making the choice. I could well have lived with a few of them too... Shunyata's Altairs, the SX's, or VooDoo's Ultralinear. The Res Refs x2's were frankly, a good fit and came in quite affordable to boot... as well as given their retail prices.
I'm of the opinion if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The BAT stuff is here to stay for a time... only the pre is something I seek to upgrade/change and then simply for grater flexibility in selecting sources. the sound quality of it is simply remarkable, after some isoing, and tube rolling, pcs... etc.
It'll be pricey to add the flexibility I seek and retain the sonics it has for sure. Likely, I'll have to move closer to the "dreaded neutrality" monster by so doing.
The amp is a keeper as it was made at the very end of the run of vk500's prior to the release of the 600... so in amp terms, it's still young... and is a real dream by solid state accounts. IMO Though I do wish it would do RCA as well as it does XLR... Oil well.
|
Thanks John... but yeah, if it ain't broke, why fix it? My lightspeed like movements in swapping out gear can likely be attributed to the thickness of my wallet more than anything. however, I feel a lot of really good devices are out there... and one needs get the absolute best one can from them... which means, trying different wires, tubes, isoing, etc... to really find out if a thing is super or subpar. that takes time... and money. time I've got.. I hope.
Finding a sound you feel is super is a hard thing to let go of for me. I'm a "Are we there yet?" sort. More about the destination than the journey. I'm not saying i've the best, but as we have talked before, what I do have is way better than a lot of what is out there for severely more money.
Speaking of severely more duckets, I have decided which way to go next though... and it'll be a while.
I'm gonna try one of Kevins ren MK II pres. If that is a good fit and i believe it will be, then I'll do either speakers or swap out the amp for a VAC tube amp as well if not for complete replacement, then for up top.
and I'm adding room treatments, little nick nacks like the last two PCs... and Elrod, and VooDoo tesla. Just gotta keep polishing up what ya got and make sure there isn't a diamond lurking somewhere in it's midst.
'cause if the grass appears to be greener on the other side, then most likely it's time to water your own lawn.
A higher water bill is a sight lot cheaper than digging a new well.
But if things ain't good right off, maybe making moves quickly with pieces is a good notion... mine was good right off the BAT. |
trust me, I'm way past shame. Not even a big part of my venacular.
That's right... you did have one, but your's had some problems. Maybe the sound was affected in some subtle way also? regardless, that's NOT what I want really.
I want two things from the newer pre... remote flexibility and more sonic integrity. better in imaging, more fleshed out images, and more colorful with of course better tonal accuracy. And less user interaction.... being a bit hard of seeing and havving a tube pre with eight gazillin tubes probably wasn't the best idea I ever had either... but it sure seemed so at the time.
Naturally the 'sonic improvements' I seek (more old school tube sound), may well only come via adding a tube amp... instead but I really would like to improve upon the level of flexibility as all I have just now is volume control. Fine actually, if the pre wasn't in another room all together.
...adding a tube amp for the top end would be the least expensive path... but then no flexibility increase. Hmmmm.
...and you weren't too thrilled with the VK51SE either, huh? |
John... whoa! that sure shed some light on things for me. I do trust your judgement. I do dig the mids I have now. Extremely enjoy the grand Ss too... one that can, envelope you at times depending upon the recording. there's not much of the sound the 5i makes with how it's configured presently, that I don't like... and of course it's in conjunction with the BAT vk500 which also emulates something of a tube sound but with more authority and strength.
I do appreciate the info on the "Super" as well. that was another notion. Perhaps a previous CJ might be more to my prefferences. Most of the tubes I have now will fit there as well.
Do all the CJs make a racket when the volume is adjusted? The new ones do. I dig the silent .5db volume increases of the BATs. Maybe the 51 is the ticket as I would hate to lose the midrange I enjoy now. I sure didn't care much for the CT6 I heard... or the 14 either. too solid statey... and both were with tube amps... the CT 6 (or maybe a 5, 7995.00) had the newest CJ 160 wpc? tube amp and some plannar speakers. Sure it was nice... but lacked body and warmth. Not worth my 19K for sure.
I'll make every effort to hear a 51se before I buy another pre. It makes sense... and there'd be no need for tube rolling with a vk51se... that's a big plus for me. i scare myself everytime I swap out tubes in my pre. thankfully, I've stumbled onto a really super mix of tubes now... so changing them out is no longer neceassary.
I'll definitely try to hear a 51se somehow or other. |
John, the illuminations are super. I did see the newest BAT SS pre at their site... though nowhere else. Nada. Absolutely, warmth and a touch of tubeyness is my prefference in sound in general. For where I want dynamics, old school rock and so forth, I'm simply gonna use another smaller system.
the Stereophile review made mention of one disparaging note... component synergy. in ref to the Saturn Calypso. I agree it interests me a lot. A dealer told me it was a hit or miss item for many folks. Sort of supporting the Stereophile take.
I'd sure not mind hearing it too. A dealer is about 200 miles round trip from me... and the folks at Aesthetics said they maybe could help if getting over to the dealer wasn't happening for me.
Did you have the 51se with other amps besides the 600? that might could play a part too. I understand the 600 to be quite the dynamic SS amp... akin to Krell. the vk500 hasn't a bright or brittle bone in it's chunky little body. It has always sounded as the pre or proc feeding it... given my limited experience in putting other things in front of it. It seems to have sufficient transparency in that anything I do to my rig does come through as a noticeable change. but yeah, I'd as soon stay oriented a shade or so to the left of neutral.
the addition/replacement of some PCs and passive filter have moved me to very near the 'DNM' (dreaded neutral monster), and things have 'cleared' up considerably from the sometimes darker side of the scale my rig previously resided in.
Thanks to my now preffs for big band jazz and slow entrance to classical genres. Not a bad thing either. So I'm no longer looking for 'lush'... that phase is likely past. I just can't physically take a top end that is anything less than easily or sweetly rendered. It just hurts after a while. Reckon I've gotten to sensitive there being hard of seeing and all. I don't know. ..and I'm really trying to avoid doing another amp as well, with mine being balanced only, the field of representatives and sonic qualities I want, it seems the path is pretty narrow... especially if you add in my hamstrung wallet.
RE 5881s
I'm using Tung Sols in mine. Like 'em. A lot. I had no idea tubes weren't in the power supply circuit in the current BATs. Hmmm. Tubes there definitiely would seem to provide a tameing aspect on the Dynamics.
Dave
thanks for the Transparent thoughts. lol. I believe I'm set for a time however. |
John
...same Stereophile article ... previous paragraph...
under the header "Cooking"
" but in my system for those days, the combinations of the two MF pieces or the two Aesthetix pieces didn't do justice to the music or to the system or to the individual components. When you're cooking up a stereo system, it's not enough to use the finest ingredients. You have to make sure the recipe works.
Conclusion ..."
perhaps I read more into that statement than I should. it's passed around enough here. synergy. Personally I'd never have thought two pre's one phon and one line, from the same maker, would have had an adverse effect or show poorly of themselves, working in conjunction with one another.
... but that's what I was speaking to. the dealer mentioned it before I did. Not the refference to the article but the notion that those people who buy it, sell it within a short period (like a year or so) afterwards... not many are kept. longterm.. so says the dealer intimating the synergy factor being IMO, acute rather than broad.
For me, as always, "Preownedsville", or less expense is the rule, not the exception once we pass the grand or so water mark. In all, if, as with yourself last year, life hadn't got in the way, I'd have been far closer now to doing something in this regard. In any case, mine will needs be sold for me to accomplish this or another preamp move.
...and yes, flexibility is the ticket as much as is catching up on technology and improving things in whatever areas can be improved upon... sonically.
the engaging factor about the Saturn for me was the three available recitations of the line stage were all with different gear, in different rooms, etc... and all proved positive results in terms of satisfaction with it's performance. that's the bit I liked. the excerpt I entered here was the only inkling of a possible issue as I recall. Only four tubes ain't a bad deal either.
So yeah, new or used, I'm excited about it. ... and at $7K, I doubt seriously that'll happen, BAT or no BAT. Oil well. We'll see. one never knows what may come down the pike. but I'm sure gonna hate to have to sell the vk5i. Absolutely. |
John, yes, he's a Calypso dealer. Knows my tastes. We were speaking of a VAC pre at the time too.
I think it'l be worth looking into though at any rate. Quiet is important to me. I'd be willing to sacrifice some dynamic thrust for a greater sense of musicality, and better harmonics. Funny thing though... listening late into the night recently I had to ask myself, "Why do I want to get another pre?" Oh, yeah, remote functionability... but the sound was super. We'll see.
Perhaps the answer for the remote with, and sans remote at a higher level is that at the extremes of the audio spectrum.. for the serious Audio nut... is a remote something one must have? Or, is it the sound. there are others that are sans remote at that level too... perhaps aesthetics wants a portion of that market share. Seems to me the more one pays the less one gets... in bells and whistles... but the signal integrity (likely) takes precedence.
Jafox
I applaud your choice for seeking warmth in your musical purchases.. |
John,
I understand. that's what I'm talking about. I see this whole she-bang as an experience... and I do see both sides... as i have lived both sides. With & without remote flexibility.
my issue is simple impaitience, or the inability to relegate myself to one source or content. No attention deficit disorder, just like hearing different things now. Wasn't always that way... and when the disc is good or a jazz show is good on NPR, or the like... I'm in no mood to change things.
And yeah, I'm getting older too. So conveinences are more well recieved. given also things like warm up time, let's check the news... etc.
it's niether a bad thing or a good thing IMO. it's a prefference. Plain and simple. I'm opting for some greater flexibility and ease. given my choice of the next contestant to sit on the rack from hell... I'll be fine, I'm sure... and the rack is about to see it's way to it's original destiny. it took a left somewhere along the way. |
Kubala Sosna ?
I keep hearing form time to time about these wires... but as yet have not heard them at all. Are they similar to anything else? Pricey? |
Yes. Actually I can. The Aries I used was (according to a shunyata official), not burned in properly. in fact it was 'overburned'. the resultant sonic complextion was one of a lack luster presentation. The detail and resolution depicting the SS was so smooth as to be remarkably uninvolving. One good thing was you could play your worst Cd, the one with the most sibilence, and it would sound fine... er.
so my experience with the Aries was by and large skewed at the onset, given the info from Shunyata. I should also add that the next step up, the Altair, could well have been a keeper in my system, had I not mere days previous made a committment to the synergistic res Ref x2.... The other top contenders were in order; Nirvana SX Ltd, and the Voodoo ultralinear. Both as main ICs, and in XLR style.
The RR x2 won out by degrees and prefs. it did not have the harmonic sweetness the Altair did, nor did it have the amazing sonic envelopment of the SS or timberal naturalness as did the Nirvana SX Ltd.
I chose the Synergistic RR X2 active because it had a slight but noticeable prominence in the mid band area, better bass impact and depiction than either of the aforementioned, save the VooDoo ultralinear which was on par with the RR X2 in the bottom regions, and the presence or immediacy it gave to those items displayed as soloists or featured players, along with the well laid out SS.
Save some degrees of lesser naturalness or organic representation of the musical elements, and i do mean 'by mere degrees only', the RR x2 active ICs account more than well of themselves in that system.
I've since changed out both amp and preamp.... though no wires... and the same attributes can be accounted there as well in so far as the Synergistic cable. I no longer have access to the others.
Additionally, I used the Nirvana SL, not the SX as a main IC... the SX was employed solely as a main source IC from the xa 777 to the VK 5i. I found the SL more akin to the poorly burned in Aries, save the SL had far greater detail and presence, but was surely the warmest cable I've heard yet. A bit too warm even for me. it would have been very nice on my Krell KAV 250, for example, an amp I consider agressive and bright... prehaps.
One point I should make as to the VooDoo Ultrlinear, it possessed almost exactly the timber of the Altair, though better bass... though as I had it for only a brief time after it seemed to quit changing, I can't be sure of the overall once well run in. RMV.
it's all in what one wants or needs for synergy or prefference. I've found I have to usually, trade off one thing for another somewhere along the line. I went off for the presentation as a whole. Timberal accuracy, bass impact, imaging, and SS development. Not quite the ambience retrival of the SX, not quite the harmonic honesty of the Shunyata Altair, but it bettered both in warmth, bass, and a touch better view to the midband than either of the above. Price played a smaller part, to the point of being only slightly significant.
truth be told here... I could well live with either of these three RR, Altair, or SX very well indeed. In fact I'm considering one of the Altair or SX as a source IC to replce the venerable MIT Magnum on the xa777.
Hope that lessens the murkyness. More descriptive info on these cables can be had by reading my reviews of the ten or so cables I auditioned in my system prior to picking the Synergistic RR x2 active, in the reviews here on Audiogone. |
