Avantgarde Duo set up.

:-) Stop whining and listen to HOrnguys! :-) I use wooden Edgarhorns that are much heavier. The ability to locate each driver precisely is a big advantage, IMO.

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What a shame...

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Hemlock
Yes, you was right that is what Avantgarde recommends, however i'm not sure i like what i'm hearing now, i think it was much better before when i had it all in top position. Should move them back and compare again (its really pice of work to move those horns up and down by yourself :( )

Hemlock
Are you sure about this? Cause i spoke with their tech support guy (forgot his name) last year and he tolled me that everything should be in the top position.

To Myron and others who have struggled with setting up Avantgarde DUO's:

If you cannot get the horns to line up according to Avantgarde's instructions, you have an older version of the tripod support. Avantgarde changed the hole positions, did not tell anyone (TMK), and printed instructions for the new support system. In addition to the suggestions already provided, please try the following:

1. Mount the high frequency horn in the middle hole.
2. Mount the midrange horn exactly 21cm (slightly over 8") from the high frequency horn, as measured from the top of the rear housing of the high frequency horn to the bottom of the rear housing of the midrange horn. The middle hole for the midrange horn will space the units exactly as Avantgarde intended.
3. Now you can slightly tilt the entire speaker either forward or backward, as required by your listening position and as suggested by Avantgarde.
4. Should you desire to move the horns to a higher position, make sure you move them together, without changing the distance between them.
5. If you experience lack of proper bass integration, try spiking the sub cabinets. I use 2" Audio Points on the rear and 1.5" Audio Points on the front. This combination positions the speakers at the precise angle and seamlessly integrates the subs with the horns.
6. It is also perfectly safe to reverse polarity of the speaker wire bass connections, providing both speakers are wired the same (experiment).

Once properly set up, the DUO's will not disappoint. Best of luck.

Hemlock27

Borg, until the Omega version/upgrade, the Duos were wired with negative tweeter polarity, so the jumper s/b reversed. Also, do not go from your amp to the tweeter - go direct to the most important driver, the mid horn...where the music lives.

And Whart is spot-on about toe-in.

Thanks Whart, I'll give it a go tonight and see what happens.

Yep, I was a little confused about the reverse polarity comment as well, since it sounds like, to invert polarity on the woof, you'd need to change both the mid and the tweets relative to the woof.
One suggestion that Jim Smith makes, aside from hooking up at the midrange, and going from there (and there is a HUGE difference in sound between the stock jumpers and the Cardas Golden Reference- no exaggeration here) is on toe in-
seated at the listening position, look toward the outer rear bolt. Its head should line up visually with the inside of the front upright rail on the same side. Sonically, the speakers seem to snap into focus. I didn't find a need to change the recommended height of either horn.

Triode,
I've just been revisiting this thread and I'm interested in your "Be sure to reverse tweeter polarity" comment. I plug my speaker cables into the lower teminals on the tweeter. Should I plug the positive into the negative and Visa versa from my amp and then reverse the jumpers into the Mid and Sub(unless of course I need to also have the sub out of Phase which means that It'll be either in phase with the reversed polarity of the tweeter or in phase with mid . Is the Duo designed to run with the tweeter out of phase or does it sound better in phase in some cases.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cmo's suggestion #4 is right on, for toe-in. But you need to be at least 12 feet away for best integration.

I'm tall and simply mount both horns in their highest positions.

The distance between speakers (measured to top dead center of tweeter horn) should be precisely 83% of the distance from each tweeter horn to your respective ears.

Be sure to reverse tweeter polarity (unless you have the Omega upgrade) and test both positive & reversed woofer polarity using a test CD track at the crossover point you're using (greater SPL is the way to go). Be sure to experiment with crossover point, in my room better integration comes at a higher setting (about 180 Hz), and don't bump the bass volume too high; in my experience, criticisms of the SUB 225s as "slow" or "wooly" are often related to poor setup (too low a crossover point and too high a volume setting).

Jim Smith of Avantgarde-USA is THE MAN when it comes to getting the best from these magnificent speakers.

hi Chris/Herman,

Thanks for your Advice. Its very good to know that the set up in the Manual isn't critical for great performance with these speakers. I'm happy to experiment with positioning etc and from your comments I've got some good things to try.

Thanks for taking the time to help, I really appreciate it.

Myron.

It sounds like you may be sitting too close. Try moving back if your room permits. You could also try varying the tilt of the speakers front to back to get the gap you desire,

"In the manual, Duos require a set-up whereby "

I think the key word in that sentence is require, which I would view as a suggestion rather than a requirement. It may be true that they achieved what they considered to be the best results with that set-up, but I would suggest that your room and equipment might require a different configuration.

That said, it is true that optimum performance requires optimum placement and that may well be different than what the manual says. Unfortunately that can only be determined by experimintation.

I bought my pair of Duo's from my (VERY COMPETENT) local dealer (they were his personal speakers). His first advise was; don't listen to what the manual say's about set-up!

Quick and dirty... here ya go.
1. Set the speakers at least 9 feet from your listening positition so the drivers can integrate properly.

2. You want your ears (height) to fall between the bottom of the midrange horn flair and the top of the tweeter horn. Now angle the speakers back so that the tweeter horn is pointed just below your ear.

3. Toe the speakers in so that you can just see the (outside) rear tightening screw through the inside of the front support.

4. IMPORTANT.... set the crossover at about 140Hz (a good starting place). The manual's recommendation is way too high and the reason people complain about bass integration issues with AVG's.

5. Connect you speaker wire to the Midrange horn first and to the other drivers from there. It is highly recommended that you upgrade your wiring harness ASAP. Mine is Cardas Golden ref. which is supposed to be one of the better one's available.

6. I would try to allow at least three feet from the front wall (behind the speakers). The distance between the speakers should be less than the distance to the listening seat as well.

7. I am using Cardas power cords on my speakers.... This is something you might want to consider in the future too.

These are some of the very best speakers I have ever heard and I am very happy to own a pair. Keep tweaking becouse they truely are wonderful when set-up properly.

Hope this helps

Chris