Ok, one more comment/question. So you can sort think of streaming as possibly two things. There's the 'player' - like a CD transport - that sends the digital output to the DAC. So the front end is mainly about connecting to the internet, the music service, and navigating the music (UI). The back end gets the data stream and converts it. Hmm. So if you're not married to MQA, there are a lot of great used DAC's out there. Interesting. Are there devices like Bluesound Node whose only job is to do this streaming interface without an internal DAC? |
Thx, guys. Question. This stuff is still confusing to me. How does something like Bluesound node2 and Chord Qutest work together? What does each do? Would the node be sort of like the front end (get and manage the streaming) and the Chord do the actual conversion?
And it's true, while there are much more hard core audiophiles out there, I did buy and sell a lot of pretty good gear to finally put this system together that worked for me. So I definitely have some hard-to-define threshold that is pretty much pass-fail for me.
But yeah, this whole world of content is just siting there for $10-20/month. That's awesome. I mean, I like playing records. Sometimes. But just to be able to play this, then that piece of music without getting out of my chair. Nice. |
PS: if someone thinks, oh man, if you'd just spend (fill in a reasonable amount) it'll be a major leap forward, I'd like to know what this is, too. It's only money. |
I just ordered Rasberry Pi based PI2AES. I am right at my $2k budget. Yggdrasil GS plus this streamer. This will sound better, be more user friendly than my phone and I am not unhappy with what I am hearing already. My takeaway: DAC is a big deal. Big deal.
Thanks to all who took the time to help me figure this out. Great stuff and I really appreciate it.
Now, to the listening!
Cheers,
Chuck |
So here’s what I am hearing. I should just start with the Node 2i. Maybe that’ll be good enough for my system/ears, maybe it won’t. If not, I’ll have a decision: which streaming service (MQA, no MQA) I can test that out a little with node as some tracks have both versions. This will drive decision re what kind of DAC, if that’s important.
PS: it doesn’t hurt my feelings but it does amaze me that my system sits where it does in the universe of audio systems! I’m glad my itch is basically scratched (and don’t want it inflamed again but I have to admit it makes me curious). Ok question. Forget the table, phone pre. Just between the VTL integrated vs Electa Amator II speakers, where’s the weaker link in the chain? (Do not tell my wife I asked this question!!!) |
Oh, Greg. Yes, vinyl is def much better than my pretty low end CD player. Difference is musicians in the room vs sound in a box. Which is what my phone hooked into amp sounds like. |
Thx Greg. A second vote of the Teac. Sure do wish I could go hear these but in the days of the virus and being an older guy, no can do.
So you get a controller app on your phone that communicates via bluetooth with the front end functionality and these are interchangeable? |
And everyone- thanks a lot. I am definitely getting a clearer idea of how to think this through! |
Greg, thanks a lot - seriously - for your input (and everyone else - that a person can go online and get thoughtful discussion re all of this still is incredible to me). Yeah, the vinyl - well, on some albums, it's still just dead quiet; I clean records pretty regularly, etc. But invariably, little pops creep in. Album replacement starts at about $40 so vs HUGE streaming catalog at $10-20/month. That's the real power of streaming. Your description of the Teac is compelling.
@blkwrxwgn how do you get digitial out from an iphone and bypass its internal DAC? Ah, I looked it up, run cable from the lightning port to DAC. But it leaves my streamer/controller wired to the system and that defeats one of my main goals. Rats, at first I thought this might be a way to start... |
Oh... qobuz. Never heard of it until this thread. I will look into it. And I never imagined maybe having more than one streaming service! I am old! |
@bajaed The trick is to hold on tight to your budget! So many attractive options that get pricey in a hurry. I am already thinking about options well past my $2k... |
Greg, yeah, hip hop isn't down the middle of the plate for me! But so far, everything except one obscure album (Ry Cooder soundtrack Paris, Texas) that i have looked for, I have found on Tidal. But the MQA is the question and it drives hardward thinking.... |
@tomcy6, you're right, I have been content quite a while. Except now, alas, I can tell, I'm getting the bug. I know what it's like to chase better. Maybe this time, I won't chase as hard! Hope not....but you get in front of a quality system, the drool starts flowing. Maybe it's good for me all the showrooms are closed.
@sunnyd I have a spreadsheet going, trying to sort through the options. I somehow missed the D1... will def check it out. |
and @tomcy6 thanks. No offense taken. |
@rbstehno How does a computer with Roon from another room work with a DAC? It sends control info via wifi to router then this sends via ethernet cable (or maybe thru wifi, depending DAC) to DAC? What is the noise issue? Thx... |
Oh wow guys. Lot of great input since I last looked. But I was up at crack of dawn to go to grocery store and will read more carefully, reply
later. Back to bed! |
Ah, hell, no going back to sleep!
@headphonedreams @richtruss @djones51 I spent hours last night looking at raspberry pi based players. I have a little diy in me (Lenox, phono pre, subwoofer which all work great, great value and sound) so. Seems aloo is in Bangalore India (where I have been!) and may be pretty shut down for now. But my daughter’s very serious boyfriend is an engineer and we might even build player and dac. (TBD!) Which breaks all my rules I set out. Question: so the ipad/iPhone ((Surface? I have a surface, wife has iPad) connects to the player ... how? The player has Ethernet cable in, but how do controller/player talk?
@big_greg I take your point re Bluesound. The key to my current system working is all the pieces fit nicely. I actually bought/sold some more expensive gear because it didn’t mesh. I sort of have to balance convenience vs quality vs cost. As I learn I have of course gone back and forth on this and unclear where I will land. A part of me says start w/bluesound and see - easiest pathway, but I am betting it would be like training wells.
@macrojack I have the M10 on my spreadsheet of options, looked up the blue book for my vtl (worth more now than I paid for it 15 yrs ago!) But two real questions. First I am not dumping my phone preamp that I built! I don’t care if it’s great or awful. I built it plus Lenco and am totally attached to them. I even debated selling all my vinyl rig/albums but no! No! Too sentimental. Second: putting this system together- it’s a ‘system’ that works together. I had other tube amps along the way and never liked them. (But regret selling the Granite monoblocks!) So how a new major piece would sound to me is a big question. There’s just no way to know. But the simplicity is a big plus. So it’s on the spreadsheet and still in play. The other point I keep thinking is if I got this streaming rig really good, I know the table would not get a lot of play. So there is that, too.
Good thing we’re in the middle of a @$#% pandemic. Lot of time to chew on this!
|
PS: this is so much fun to talk about and learn. Midnight last night I’m reading schematics and discussions by engineers re diy dac’s - totally over my head on a good day, but bleary-eyed at midnight... ha.
I am getting such a great education from you guys. It feels like most of the options that are in the ball park of my needs are on the table. At least in theory I have a clue, see mainly what the major pieces are and how they fit. But sound is so subjective. Just no way to know till you plug it in and play it in my system. |
Ok, wild question, breaking all my rules. Chewing on Schitt Yggdrasil GS DAC (older analog card, can be upgraded later) + Allo Digione Signature Player. Thinking being the player is a placeholder to honor my budget and players/streamers are where things are really dynamic. The GS doesn't do MQA and other stuff, but what it does do, it does very well.
It this nuts? |
@jazzman I am still trying to figure out this level of detail...But I saw a video of how you can download the various OS onto that external storage. I am thinking Roon playing Qobuz (from what everyone says... this is all still pretty abstract to me). But I am thinking the Schitt piece is really good and is probably the anchor. I also am replacing our router and getting decent Ethernet cable. |
Ok, first decision made. Ordering Schitt Yggradsil GS DAC tomorrow. Still chewing on player, and initially will just run iphone into Ygg USB. I think it is the modular/upgrade design plus value position ($1600 new) that got my attention. I mean, no way to know if it'll mesh, so we'll see. Clearly I am going to bust right thru that $2k ceiling. Ha. What else is new?
@mikethehunterguy... I thought of that same approach you suggested, but truth is I like the thought of driving music from a chair, no disc washing, less wear on the vinyl, etc, etc. Pandemic laziness has set in. |
I ordered Schitt Yggdrasil gs (sort of a hybrid of last version, new version of this dac) today. Next is to figure out the player/streamer. Interim will be iPhone. Seems that building the raspberry pi based digione signature is a great thing, I just have to make sure I understand how all the pieces connect - streaming system (assume qobuz), controller (Roon on iPhone), player/os/connectors, and dac all fit. The pi physical build is the easy part. It’s putting all this stuff together so software keeps working together that has me scratching my head. 15 day return will give me time to assess whether this is a good anchor for digital... |
Ok, last thing. This all was inspired by being home a bunch (we're usually really active, outside all day here near the beach) and then we moved the audio to our combo family/kitchen. Where I plug iphone in as we make dinner and inevitably, we dance a little as we cook. Sweet. Fun to see my wife dancing as she drinks a beer, |
@tvad... ps: how's the UI?
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Hahaha. Audiophile-land remains as nuts today as 15 yrs ago. So I am starting to really dive into streamers and of course ran into the CD-transport vs server vs streamer debate, and in a couple of places, heated debate. Quick decision: streamer. It's the library that is so awesome. I mean, right now I just heard the orig demo of Revolution and now McCartney doing a live Hey Jude. Never heard either of these before. Awesome.
My CD collection is puny and player is puny. No need to try to remedy this, although for 30 minutes, I chased that idea a little. I mean, a quality DAC (assuming it does sound good to me) does open options up. |
@tvad... thanks. I had just looked at this from the thread debating streamer vs server vs transport. That's a serious alternative. How are you liking your Ygg? |
It arrives tomorrow. I am checking my watch oh about every 23 minutes.
I will likely get a r pi-based player. Just going to do things one step at a time. If I wait a month or three then my sense of what I want to spend can open up a little. I am really enjoying streaming - with my free tidal 30 days even on just my phone into amp exploring all kinds of music till late in the night. It’s easy to lose sight of music for sound (I’ve done that!) Now I am much more focused on listening to music that moves me. |
Is it 'superbestaudiofriends?' Must be... |
Hey @jeffjazz thx! Ok, i will check audio friends out. I keep hearing some units take a month or so, others seem to be good out of the box. To be honest, part of what sold me (besides the reported high performance/price) was their web site tone and reading Jason Stoddard's story on head-fi. Anyway, I am totally excited. Been 15 yrs+ since last piece of audio gear. |
Oh, and pi2design, also... Again thx. |
Yggdrasil arrived today. Alas, they failed to ship the usb to RCA cable I need, so 2 more days until streaming test. My old Yamaha CS player has no digital out, but my very cheap Samsung DVD player does, so... at least I can hear CD's thru the DAC.
If the streaming sounds this good, I will be one happy camper. I am not expecting my iphone to be this good, maybe my daughters 12 might be. |
I am always mystified by music reproduction. Forget the fact I am listening to music recorded 50 yrs ago that sounds great today. But more than that, the technology that records, translates a musical instrument & music onto a medium (analog or digital, both amazing), then recovers it and plays all the nuanced sound - different sounds, at the same moment - through speakers. And then with good system, begins to locate the various instruments in space. I know there is well-understood science about this, but still, what I am hearing is magic to me. |
It’s just sweet. With a $75 blue ray player that’s 5? yrs old. So it’s gotta be better and this is plenty good. The one place it struggles with dense music with a lot going on, gets kinda mushed together but that probably takes serious money to fix I fear plus great source material. |
Ok, now I can stream from phone to Ygg. I learned the hard way in that A/B tests are the path to endless tinkering. Some people like that and I once did. But now, there's just one question: do I like it? Yep. It's really nice. I never learned how to describe sound, so I won't try.
Well, a qualified 'yep.' Playing from the phone is a pain in the butt. No remote, and the phone is lost for other uses while music plays unless I sit 2 feet from amp. And I am not getting all that Qobuz delivers. So definitely, another player is still on the horizon.
So, a question. How much more money does it take to really be better than a raspberry pi based signature or pi2aes ($400 ish)? |
Ok, at last... I got the Pi2aes this week. All excited, I built it, and after a few fits and starts, it looked all fine. Except no sound. 2 days later, it was finally just a total reboot, erase the microSD and start all over, and ... poof, it plays.
And sounds great. Nice to control play from my chair!!! And sounds great. I think I am done. For now. |
