2. amps-preamps
  3. 133305-107338

amp (or receiver) recommendation for Polk Audio RTi A7 floorstanding speakers

I started off building a 7.1 home theater system. Based on advice received here, I changed my plans. I'm re-purposing some of my components to a dedicated music system in another room. I would like some advice on this music system. (I'm keeping the home theater system in the smaller room and using smaller speakers with it.)

I am looking for a music system that will give me smooth, sweet, soft, silky treble with instruments like the Indian sitar or sarangi. These instruments can be challenging. I hope the system also has clarity and detail and enough punch for alternative rock in a large room.

I have two possibilities for listening location. One room is 18 feet x 22 feet with a tile floor, floor to ceiling windows on back wall and 8 foot ceiling. The front wall has a book case.

The other possible room is about 25 feet x 40 feet with a vaulted ceiling (approx 16+ feet at center). Back wall is also mostly glass. Flooring will be wood soon, but for now it is carpet. Neither room has curtains (or any window treatments) over the windows.

My old room was 11.5 feet x 11.5 feet and these speakers were too much for that small space (along with a large TV).

Let's assume I can arrange either new room so that my listening position and the speaker placement closely conforms to the "golden ratio" (http://www.ecoustics.com/articles/stereo-speaker-placement-optimum-sound/).

Here are the components I already own and would like to use:

  • pair of Polk Audio RTi A7 floorstanding speakers (8 ohms) - Sensitivity (1 watt @ 1 meter): 89 dB. Recommended Amp Power Per Channel: 20 watts → 300 watts
  • pair of Polk Audio RTi A5 floorstanding speakers (8 ohms) - Sensitivity (1 watt @ 1 meter): 90 dB. Recommended Amp Power Per Channel: 20 watts → 250 watts
  • Klipsch RP-250C Center Channel Speaker (probably won't use)
  • Klipsch R-112SW Subwoofer 600 W, powered
  • LG UP875 4K BLU-RAY PLAYER (plays audio CDs) (features HDMI, USB, and optical digital audio output)
  • computer with Asus X99 Deluxe II motherboard featuring Crystal Sound 3 audio (https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/X99-DELUXE-II/) (features USB, HDMI or optical S/SPIF output)
  • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 USB audio interface (if needed) (https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-6i6)

Music will be played from my computer or the LG UP875 disc player.

What I have in mind is a 2.1 system with TWO pairs of front speakers (4 speakers total). I tried a dual front speaker setup briefly and I liked it, although I understand it is unconventional. But I have the speakers and I would like to try using them all. (If that is a really bad idea, even in a larger room, I'll give up on it.)

Also, I am curious to try bi-amp'ing and the speakers support it. If I use dual front speakers and bi-amp them 8 powered channels are required.

In a smaller room, I would not need a subwoofer with these front speakers. I don't know how that will turn out in a larger room. I don't listen to bass boosted music. But I assume I'll need a subwoofer. I assume I will not use the center channel speaker at all. I can return it.

Here's what I anticipate I'll need:

  • something with an amplifier
  • something with a sub out for the subwoofer
  • something to connect everything together (and, I guess, let me choose between the disc player and computer as sources)

What I do *not* need from the new components:
  • analog input sources
  • streaming, WiFi or networking (other than what I do with the computer)
  • home theater features or video support
My budget is about $1000, although I have some flexibility. But I only have about $2300 invested in the other components (not counting the center speaker, which I won't use, or the computer which is multi-purpose). So it doesn't seem to make sense to spend a whole lot more.

I am new to audio and home theater. I'm just learning now and I want to gain some experience before I increase my budget too much. Later, if I purchase much more expensive speakers, I'll get a more expensive preamp / amp combo. In my (limited) understanding the heart of an audio system -- where the money should be spent -- is the speakers and the amp. But with my most expensive speakers (the A7's) being $600/pair, it seems unreasonable to spend more than $1000 on a preamp+amp / integrated amp / stereo receiver (whichever is recommended) for this setup. If my logic is wrong, I guess I could be talked into increasing the budget to $2000 or so.
lowoverdrive

Showing 15 responses by lowoverdrive

lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
mtrot: "I would add shimmery, airy cymbals as another goal." Yes! :-)

willemj: "Yamaha AS 801 amplifier... Yamaha P3500S amplifier... " Thanks for those recommendations.

willemj: "For a very sweet top end, Harbeth is probably the brand to go for. ... M30.1, the smallest that I think you might use comfortably..." Those speakers appear to be close to $6000 for a pair. That's above my current budget. It's not that couldn't buy them, it's that I don't have enough experience to justify spending that much on speakers. I only recently started listening to music seriously -- like a week ago! You guys have all been doing this for a long time. You can appreciate quality. I need time to get there. I've been involved in sports and hobbies before where some new guy comes in and buys all the best gear, but is still obviously imcompetent. I'd rather be incompetent with $600 speakers than with $6000 speakers.

willemj: "Low frequency response gets even better (smoother and cleaner) with a second sub." Thanks. Noted.

"Pioneer U-05 pre-amplifier/DAC combined with a pro audio power amplifier like the recently discontinued 2x250 watt Yamaha P2500S or 2x350 watt P3500S pro audio power amplifiers." I'll check prices.

lowrider57: "A speaker is designed to stand alone with air on all sides." Noted. Thanks. I will drop the idea of dual front speakers.

swampwalker: "Something like the Peachtree Audio Nova 220 SE integrated amp would fill the bill." Thanks for the recommendation.

"You are going to need a lot of power to drive those speakers in either of those rooms (IMO, the bigger room is WAY too big for anything other than a megabuck amp AND more sensitive speakers." What if I set up the music listening area in 1/4 of 1/3 (or 1/2) of the room? I do not require that the sound achieve a certain level all the way in the back of the room, for example. The room will be open, but I can establish my listening position closer to the speakers if needed. Will that work?

lowrider57: "It might be worthwhile to set up a basic system in this room to find the problem areas and approximate your listening position."

That is exactly what I will do! To me, a "basic" system would consist of my Polk RTi A7's and a good integrated amplifier (or preamp + amp). Is that reasonable?

At the moment, I have gotten recommendations for these:

OPPO UDP-205
Pioneer U-05 pre-amplifier/DAC combined with Yamaha P3500S
Yamaha AS 701
Yamaha AS 801
Peachtree Audio Nova 220 SE integrated amp
Marantz (no specific product recommended)

Did I miss anything?
lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
"What will your source be...CDP, streaming, computer files?"

Some kind of CD player and computer files played directly from the computer (via USB or HDMI or optical digital audio out on the computer), or I could pass the computer's audio out through a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6.
lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
I just purchased the Yamaha P5000S from Amazon that willemj mentioned.

mesch - "With your budget I would encourage you to purchase a integrated amplifier."

Yes, this is very sensible advice and I intended to go this route -- up until the moment I saw the Yamaha P5000S on Amazon...

So now that I have opened that can of worms, what shall I pair the P5000S with? I hope I didn't make a mistake here because I do not yet see the preamp that seems to meet my needs / budget.

willemj mentioned either the Pioneer U-05 or the Oppo 205 as a front end. I like the Oppo 205, but not right now and probably not for this room / system. And the Pioneer U-05 appears to ship from Japan. My strategy right now is to purchase things I can easily return (given that I still don't really know what I'm doing).

The Yamaha P5000S sold by Amazon can be returned, no questions asked. But assuming I made a good choice there, what else can I pair it with? Anything at $500 or less? The Pioneer U-05 is $842 (free shipping on Amazon) but it is only sold by 3rd party sellers and in that case sometimes returns are a problem. I'll spend up to that price range of $800 if absolutely necessary.

However, the Yamaha A-S801BL is $899 on Amazon right now and if I can't find a suitable front end for the P5000S, I will cancel that order (or return it) and go for the Yamaha A-S801BL instead. I saw multiple people recommend the 801 and I tend to think it would be a good choice as well.

BTW, I submitted a return for the Polk RTi A5's (the smaller of my two floorstanding speakers). So I will be using only the A7's in this system.

lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
" even a modest stand-alone DACs like the myDAC will be superior to the one in most computers. "

How does the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 compare to myDAC?
https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-6i6

I already own the 6i6. It's designed for a different purpose, but it seems to work really well as a DAC.
lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
swampwalker - I'm a little confused by the different Peachtree models and some comments I have seen in reviews. I don't see the Peachtree Audio Nova 220 SE integrated amp listed at the places I need to shop right now. Also, it seems to be a bit pricey.

Some reviews have mentioned these things:

* no LFE out for subwoofer
* USB input is limited to 16-bit/48kHz, even though the DAC itself is fully capable of 24-bit, 96kHz signal processing.
* The DAC is limited to 24-bit, 96kHz, which should be more than adequate (CDs and iTunes downloads are 16-bit, 44.1 kHz) for most people, but if you have invested in 192 kHz-sampled music, you probably should consider a different alternative.

I"m not sure if all that is accurate, but it simply means that I would need to spend more hours learning about Peachtree products before I could decide to purchase.

With multiple people recommending the Yamaha amps, that seemed like an easier decision... but what do I know?

Honestly, I feel like I probably should not buy anything until I understand the products better, but in spite of that hesitation I am going to forge ahead and buy *something* just so I can continue experimenting and learning.

So far the Yamaha AS 801, or the Yamaha P5000S with some as-yet-undetermined front end, seem like simple choices for me to take a next step.

What would be a good front end for the Yamaha P5000S power amp?

Or, If I'm going in the wrong direction, what else should I consider?

Keep in mind that my speakers are $600/pr. Until some future date when I invest more in speakers, does it really make sense to spend $2500 on a Peachtree integrated amp? That doesn't seem smart to me. From what I have read, I feel like I should invest the most money in my speakers.

Since I'm already not exactly following that guideline, I set an approximate budget of $1000 for whatever equipment I'm going to use to power these speakers.

If I could get a front end for the Yamaha P5000S ($650) for $500 to $600 that would be closer to my $1000 target. I can go over that budget if doing so is a smart decision, but with my limited knowledge it is more likely that I will NOT make a smart decision. I'd rather keep my mistakes limited to smaller amounts of money.

I also have the choice of the Yamaha AS 801 for under $900. That one was recommended multiple times. Maybe I should cancel the Yamaha P5000S and get the 801... I probably still have time to do that.

I'm open to any other suggestions of course. I appreciate all the opinions and every comment has been helpful. I know I'm not exactly going about this the ideal way, but I also have time constraints and other factors that limit some of my options (as I suppose everyone does).

Thank you.


lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
willemj - "Focusrite - Is that what I think it is?"

Yes, I think so... I already use the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 with my computer and a set of powered speakers (Logitech Z623). Going from that to a power amp with unpowered speakers seems like it should work, right?

The Focusrite Scarlett does indeed have a volume control.

willemj - "All in all and for now I would not buy an extra DAC. I think you are done."

I will at least try this approach and see how it goes. I'm pretty excited about it. I like the idea of buying one new piece of equipment and seeing what existing equipment I can re-use to come up with something that works. I'll learn from this and then I'll have a better idea what I want to try next.

In summary this is the next step I'll be trying:

A room of about 20 feet x 30 feet with a vaulted ceiling (approx 16+ feet at center) and a lot of open space. (I had the measurements wrong earlier.)

The components list:


First question - the A7 speakers are recommended with up to 300 watts and the Yamaha P5000S puts out more than that. What precautions should I take? Is it as simple as not turning the volume up too high?

Second question - how is the subwoofer connected to the Yamaha P5000S?

Third question - any tips on the settings for the subwoofer?

Thanks




lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
Here are the panels on the amp, DAC and subwoofer.

https://imgur.com/a/6Eh06

Unfortunately, this sub does not provide speaker level (hi-level) inputs.

I read a few different articles about the connection options. Here are the 3 I thought were best:

http://kenrockwell.com/audio/how-to-connect-subwoofers.htm
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-to-hook-up-a-subwoofer-to-a-stereo-system/
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/pages/subwoofer-tips

However, I would appreciate some recommendations for the subwoofer connection specific to this equipment. Anyone want to help?

Also, in addition to the actual connections, I would appreciate any thoughts on the settings on the back of the Yamaha. I'm guessing 80 Hz with the size of my A7 front speakers. Do I set both channels the same and run both channels to my subwoofer? Without the subwoofer having speaker level inputs, I am a bit confused about the best approach.


lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
Equalizer Apo claims to be Windows-only, so that leaves me out. But I can try Pulse Audio Equalizer on the computer, if needed.

The cables (TRS or TRS-to-RCA, etc.) don't sound like a problem. But I am confused by something very basic. I thought the connection had to flow in this direction: computer -> Focusrite -> Yamaha -> Speakers, which implies the speakers have to be connected to the Yamaha.

You said, "you should be able to connect both main speakers and subwoofer to the Focusrite."

I can understand connecting the subwoofer before the amp because it has its own internal power amp.

But how would the speakers be powered when connected to the Focusrite without the power running through the Focusrite? If the amp power is run through the Focusrite, isn't that potentially harmful?

Is there a good article somewhere that covers this topic? The articles I have read so far would all indicate that the speakers need to be connected to the Yamaha, not the Focusrite. I'm sure I'm missing some basic understanding.

BTW, the subwoofer is powered and is rated at a claimed 600W. I do have a less powerful Polk subwoofer that has speaker-level connects.
lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
kalali - "Are you sure about Yamaha P5000S? " I think willemj responded better than I could. I am not sure about anything. I'm just learning. I am, however, buying my equipment new from Amazon right now so that I can return it if I make a decision that doesn't work for me. Later, when I learn more, I'll look for bargains or used equipment, etc. Right now, I realize that I could easily buy something that seems great but just doesn't work for a variety of reasons. I did buy the Yamaha P5000S from Amazon and I can return it if it doesn't work for me.

elizabeth - RE: ferrite chokes: which cables? Should they go on speaker cables? AC power cords? HDMI calbles? Both ends? Thanks.

willemj: what other info would be helpful to know about the analog outputs of the Focusrite? It has 4 balanced analog outputs on 1/4" TRS jacks. (It also has SPDIF in and out with RCA jacks.) It also has two headphone outs using 1/4" TRS jacks. The headphone jacks carry the same signal that is routed to the main outputs.

More of the specs are available here: https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-6i6/specifications

willemj: "What are yo doing with the smaller Polk sub? Will you return it?" Yes, it is still returnable.

"I think you are almost there with the music system for the big room."

I wish to thank you and everyone on these forums. Everyone has been really helpful. This is one of the best forums I have participated in -- lots of well-thought-out and diverse opinions, lots of knowledgeable people, and a high-level of communication. Thanks so much. I look forward to learning a lot more here.
lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
"My only remaining question would be if you can play from two analogue outputs at the same time"

Yes, it can. It's pretty flexible.
lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
Regarding connecting speakers... I will be connecting the USB DAC (Scarlett 6i6) to the Yamaha P5000S power amplifier in a very standard manner via two 1/4 inch to XLR cables. I will then connect my speakers to the Yamaha P5000S in the standard manner. No questions there.

When it comes to the powered subwoofer which has L/R RCA line in connections, it seems like I should be able to run two RCA cables from the Scarlett 6i6 to the subwoofer, bypassing the amp. Any problem with that?

I have 2 sets of L/R 1/4 inch analog outputs on the Scarlett 6i6 and I have them set to provide the same output. One set will go to the Yamaha inputs. The other set can go to the subwoofer it would seem. Does all that sound correct?
lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
@willemj - Thanks again for your help. I seem to almost have this figured out. Please let me know if I’m wrong.

Here are the panels on the amp, Scarlett 6i6 and subwoofer.
https://imgur.com/a/6Eh06
https://imgur.com/a/lMkPa (better rear of sw)

The subwoofer only has line level inputs labeled R and L/LFE. My assumption is that I should not use the mono LFE input if the signal isn’t low cut. Instead I am planning to use R & L (with 2 shielded RCA cables) from the Scarlett 6i6.

At the Scarlett I will use 1/4 inch mono to RCA adapters similar to these:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042906&p_id=7176&seq=1...

I assume they should be mono on the 1/4 inch side, correct?

These will plug into analog outputs 3 & 4 on the Scarlett. (3 is L.) These outputs are mapped to be exactly the same as outputs 1 & 2.

On the subwoofer I’ll set the low-pass to 80 Hz. I’m under the impression low-pass on this subwoofer can’t be used when LFE is used, so a mono cable with RCA Y-adapter wouldn’t seem to be the right method (at least without something like the Anticable 8033 Sii).

1/4 inch TRS analog outputs 1 (L) and 2 (R) on the Scarlett will go to inputs A and B on the Yamaha via 1/4 inch TRS to XLR balanced cables wired according to the Yamaha manual (pin 2 to hot tip, which I think is standard).

Regarding the Anticable 8033 S-II, my plan is to try it without that and see what my ears tell me I might need (or want to try) next.

Actually, my next step will be to test the Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp.

I also have this (probably crazy) idea to try a Yamaha P2500S power amp (or smaller) and bi-amp my speakers (together with the P5000S), using the smaller amp on the high frequency inputs. Would that be worth trying?

I’m also inclined to try the Oppo UDP-205 at some point in the near future. Or maybe a more traditional audio USB DAC and see if I can tell any difference from the Scarlett. But I like sticking with just the equipment I have for now. The Yamaha P5000S should be here on Tuesday. I think I have all the cables I’ll need unless the above plan is wrong.

Do you see any other potential problems in regard to the connections?

One last idea I’m thinking about for further down the road is the suggestion by @erik_squires that "many audiophiles should make at least one pair of speakers in their lifetimes." I like the Polk cabinets and I don’t have a wood shop, so I am wondering what I might be able to do starting wtih the Polks as my base -- down the road, of course.


lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
@willemj "I am not sure about the plug that you linked to (call Focusrite for advice)".

I think the info I need is in the manual. Here's what it says:

"LINE OUTPUTS 1 to 4 – four balanced analogue line outputs on 1⁄4” (6.35 mm) jack sockets; use TRS jacks for a balanced connection or TS jacks for unbalanced. The signals available at all these outputs may be defined in Scarlett MixControl."

I believe RCA is unbalanced by definition (thanks for the balanced/unbalanced article - I'm reading that now).

This leads me to believe that the 1/4 inch to RCA adapters should be mono (TS), which is the style I have.

I can't see how using TRS (stereo) 1/4 inch to RCA adapters with RCA cables would make sense. Is there something I am missing?

(Granted, it will take me some time to get through that whole article you linked. It's a great article, but I don't think I'll understand it prior to the Yamaha arriving on Tuesday. I'll be ready to get things connected and give it a listen!)

If there is more to the connections than what the Scarlett 6i6 manual says, what would I need to ask Focusrite?

Thanks


lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
Follow up #2 - how does it sound?

My system now consists of these components:

  • pair of Polk Audio RTi A7 floorstanding speakers (8 ohms) - Sensitivity (1 watt @ 1 meter): 89 dB. Recommended Amp Power Per Channel: 20 watts → 300 watts
  • computer with Asus X99 Deluxe II motherboard featuring Crystal Sound 3 audio (https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/X99-DELUXE-II/) (features USB, HDMI or optical S/SPIF output)
  • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 USB audio interface (as DAC) (https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-6i6)
  • kSubwoofer 1: Polk Audio PSW125 Subwoofer
  • Yamaha P5000S power amp <-- purchased on recommendations in this thread. Thanks!

(Small point - I used the Polk subwoofer instead of the Klipsch. I may swap them later, but for now the Klipsch is in my home theater room.)

This is the best music listening experience I have had in my life (so far). It sounds absolutely fantastic!

The Yamaha P5000S made a big difference. That amp has, to my ears, much better sound than the Sony STR-DN1080. No surprise there, of course. But it also significantly improves upon the Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp.

I realize I don’t have any experience listening to the high end gear most of you guys have listened to, but I immediately did not like the sound of my initial setup with the Sony receiver, as discussed here:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-system-has-fatiguing-harsh-high-frequency-sounds-how-to-f...

However, those same speakers, with the Yamaha P5000S sound really good to me. At this moment, I don’t really have any complaints. In fact, I’m overjoyed.

I am still shopping for speakers in the $5000/pair price range. I have been reading a lot of reviews and thinking about distortion, clarity, detail, sound stage, etc. To my (somewhat inexperienced) ears, this setup with the Yamaha power amp and the Polk RTi A7 speakers, lets me experience a very satisfying level of all the things I have been reading about that come with the best speakers and the best components. With my current system, the sound stage is surprisingly expansive. The detail and clarity are amazing. The harshness in the higher frequencies is gone.

I am beyond happy with this amp (and the whole system).

HOWEVER, I have only been listening to it for a couple hours. I assume if I start listening even more critically and look for some music the speakers can’t handle well, I will find problems... maybe.

For now, this is such a huge improvement that I am happy to just enjoy it for a while.

Also, as I noted above, because I do not have a traditional DAC or pre-amp (or receiver), I am limited in my input controls. Fixing that will be next on my list. I am probably going to order the Teac NT-503 and install the Android app for HQPlayer. See thread here.

I have the option to use a software DAW with the Scarlett 6i6, but that will only be temporary.

I’m really surprised how much better the Yamaha P5000S sounds compared to the Yamaha A-S801. That’s the biggest surprise so far. The Sony receiver is fine for my home theater setup in my small room. But the Yamaha A-S801 integrated amp is probably going back.

The Yamaha P5000S power amp is a keeper. It absolutely blows me away. Wonderful sound, even with my current speakers. Big surprise. Now I like these speakers too.

In case anyone else considers this amp, it is a lot bigger and heavier than I expected. Because of its depth, it barely fits on my shelf. And it comes with rack-mount tabs on the front, so it’s not the most attractive component... but I can remove the rack-mount tabs. Anyway, I like it and the style / appearance is not a problem for me. I am much more concerned about having beautiful speakers. I’m very picky about how my speakers look. The amp can be put where its not very visible, if needed.



lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
I received the Yamaha P5000S power amp. I'm going to post two follow up messages about it.

First, in this one, I will confirm how I connected it.

It turns out that what I speculated would work, in my post of 7-Jan-2018 and based on help from @willemj , does indeed work -- with one caveat. The volume knob on the Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 only controls analog outputs 1 & 2, not 3 & 4. I have 3 & 4 going to the subwoofer, which has its own volume control. It works, but that's not the most convenient solution. The Scarlett may have software control options for changing this, but I didn't see them yet. There may be other workarounds. (However, at the moment, it is not hindering my listening enjoyment.)

To put all the connection info in one place, here's a recap of my earlier message with the final connections:

Here are the panels on the amp, Scarlett 6i6 and subwoofer.
https://imgur.com/a/6Eh06
https://imgur.com/a/lMkPa (better rear of sw)

The subwoofer only has line level inputs labeled R and L/LFE. I used R & L (with 2 shielded RCA cables) from analog outputs 3 & 4 on the Scarlett 6i6.

At the Scarlett I used 1/4 inch mono to RCA adapters similar to these:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=104&cp_id=10429&cs_id=1042906&p_id=7176&seq=1...

On the subwoofer I set the low-pass to 80 Hz.

1/4 inch TRS analog outputs 1 (L) and 2 (R) on the Scarlett went to inputs A and B on the Yamaha via 1/4 inch balanced TRS to XLR balanced cables.

The connections do work correctly. It was not hard to connect at all. I had an idea of what I was doing from earlier research, so when the amp arrived I had it connected in no time and I have been listening to music since then.


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