A tubes vs. Solid State question.

Alright- the reason I prefer tubes is that they lack coloration- and by that I mean they lack odd-odered harmonics that are signature of every transistorized amplifier I have heard.

I don't like the fact that tubes are less reliable, generate more heat and I agree that there are many tube amps and preamps out there that have too much in the way of coloration, which is why I started making my own.

But for the extra hassle, there is also extra performance, and if properly realized, it is State of the Art. Transistors fall well short of the mark in every department that matters once compared to a State of the Art tube amplifier.

The caveat that one must always issue is that tube amplifiers and transistor amplifiers behave fundimentally different in a number of ways, in particular in how they relate to the speaker. IOW, you had better take some care with the choice of speaker to demonstrate the extra performance that tubes offer. If this care is not taken its apples to oranges!

One other thing that seems to come up in these debates is taste in listeners. For example, I like an easy going presentation that I can listen to 24 hours a day without fatigue. I want the last detail in stage width and depth, and complete delineation of tone colors and timbre. The presentation must complete bandwidth too and I am not satisfied if the bass falls short. I can't stand hardness in the highs!

Others may have an issue with the heat (to get what I want I use triodes operating class A) and I can't fault them for that. Once you stray away from class A, it is no longer capable of state of the art, so when you are comparing tubes to transistors, you have to keep in mind that you are dealing with a *ton* of variables that may not allow the truely objective listener to make a proper comparison!

If the amplifier is push-pull, then such harmonics can be cancelled in the output. This is how transistors do it too. Single-ended triode amplifiers thus have much more even-ordered harmonic coloration, which is the source of their (IMO) overly-rich (fat) sound.

It has been shown that humans object more strenuously to odd-orders than they do even-orders- this has to do with the way the human ear has evolved over millions of years and I for one have decided that it is not worth it to fight this reality :)

So if a tube amplifier is properly built its even-ordered harmonic generation can be quite low (and how low depends on feedback or other design characteristics, which is how transistor amps get their low distortion numbers too, BTW). It is a simple fact that tube amplifiers make less distortion (open loop) than transistors to begin with and so need less or even zero feedback. This means that a tube amplifier can be built in such a way that it lacks coloration wheras this is nearly impossible with the current state of the art in transistors.

Unfortunately there are many tube amplifier products that are actually designed to produce even-ordered harmonic colorations, but again IMO these amplifiers have more in common with musical instruments than they do with musical reproducers.

Just because I prefer tubes does not mean that I am not aware of their weaknesses :)

It surprises me that at this late date, this debate can still go on.

I remember in an analog/digital debate years ago someone mentioning warped records as a reason to throw out all analog forever. It was a sideline comment- obviously just because a few records are warped does not mean that all of them are. We face a similar issue in this debate as well.

IOW this begs the question: 'Have you heard the very best tube amplifier compared to the very best transistor amplifier?"

Once we get to this point all bets are off. The correct answer to the above question for everyone here is: 'No.'

First, one would have to determine what is the best tube amplifier and also the best transistor amplifier in order to effect the comparison to begin with. That will take a few years at the rate we are going. I know our amplifiers are the best available at any price, and having heard the best transistor amps (mentioned in this thread at least) its obvious that they have a ways to go before that can beat what we make.

Of course I am sure that there are those who disagree! But they've not heard our latest efforts either...

I think you will find that any designer worth his salt is convinced that their way is the best. Most designers I know are *extremely* dedicated and do this out of passion and the desire to make the best, rather than money, and that is how it should be.

When the product gets marketed, the ad says its the best, as will the dealer- they can't all be best! This has been going on for 40 years... So the only real way to know what is the best is to take it home and play it. Obviously it might work for you, but the simple fact of the matter is no-one has the resources to actually find out which the best is- and this is essential if we are to determine which is better- tube or transistor.

In the meantime this. Is. All. Opinion :)

Hi Nrchy, even ordered harmonics are harmonics where the fundamental frequency has been multiplied by an even number, 2,4 and the like. 'Times 2' yields the '2nd harmonic' and so on.

Odd orders are fundamentals multiplied by odd numbers, 3,5 and so on.

This is probably more than you expected to hear from me about this :) but:

There is something extremely interesting about harmonic distortion, that no person can escape: the ear/brain system evolved to use odd-ordered harmonics as a loudness cue, as it is a very efficient means to analyze loudness without having to use all the cognitive facilities.

If you think about it, before (and after, FWIW) the beginning of civilization, quite often loud sounds were associated with extreme danger, thus the detection of how *loud* these sounds are is quite important and might need to be acted on immediately (as in 'fight or flight' behaviour). IOW the response to odd ordered harmonics can connect directly to the amygdala, the so-called 'reptilian' or 'lower' brain.

If you ever wondered how music and its reproduction can invoke an emotional response you need look no further!

What we can conclude from this is that odd-ordered harmonics at the very least induce stress, and indeed, tests GE performed in the 1960s showed that humans are quite intolerent of vanishingly small amounts of odd-ordered harmonic content.

So in simple terms tube amplifiers in good condition will be less stressful to listen to, as in general, they produce less odd-ordered distortion. Because the cerebral cortex can overcome messages from the lower brain, it is possible to still enjoy a transistor amplifier, but it will always been seen that a properly operating tube amplifier will be less stressful.

Reduction of this type of distortion was thus a paramount design goal with the Atma-Sphere lineup, as I was interested in getting the equipment to conform as closely as possible to the rules used by the ear/brain system. You might say this is a more 'organic' approach, and some designers feel that it is better to conform to the rules of linearity instead. I feel that in doing so this allows for small amounts of odd ordered harmonic continue to be ignored.

We are a long way from using all the ear/brain rules in audio reproduction. Just for example, we use linear recording and playback systems, yet the ear/brain system is logarithmic. It will be a while before anyone attempts that!