7/7 London

I was wondering how long it would take for an attack on ol W to pop up on this thread. Not long.

What does Iraq have to do with this?

Before you point out what you think is the obvious, consider this:

I'm sure many folks firmly believe that Iraq is the greatest Jihad training camp of all time, provided by us to the Islamists. But:

September 11, 2001, we weren't in Iraq. That attack was YEARS in the making- long before Bush entered office. That attack was about:

1. Bin Laden was very pissed at the Saudis for turning down his offer to drive the Iraqis from Kuwait instead of bringing in American Infidels.

2. Consequently, The US Infidels gained a presence in Saudi Arabia.

3. Bin Laden holds the US in the highest contempt, and will use any excuse and methodology to destroy us.

How would you win the war on terror Mimberman? Bin Laden recently stated that his goal is the re-establishment of the Caliphate. Kind of a long term goal that pretty much screams "fuck you" at the entire Western world wouldn't you say?

Why don't we grieve for our friends in the UK and focus on the guys attacking the west?

Daddy-O;

Don't forget that Clinton also believed that Saddam had WMD-and said so- because the same guys who told Bush Iraq had WMD previously convinced Clinton as well.

Bush and Cheney made all that info up to launch the Iraq war? Well, maybe in some Oliver Stone movie.

Illegal invasion? Every invasion is "illegal". We did'nt stop and fill out an application before rolling into Germany 60 years ago. Come to think of it, they did'nt check with the Poles in '39 either- but I digress.

Great technology only does so much. Finding Bin Laden won't come down to satellite photos- it'll come down to human intelligence or dumb luck. And we have killed or captured some guys DIRECTLY responsible for 9/11- remember KSM? It was his plot!

We've murdered thousand of innocent civilians in Iraq? I would not agree without eveidence that the number is thousands of innocent civilians. But war does suck- remember the British fire bombing Dresden? The US incediary raids on Tokyo? THEN we killed HUNDREDS of Thousands of innocent civilians. War is always terrible.

As far as looking at both sides of the story and understanding facts, read what I said above. Those are the reasons Bin Laden attacked the US- all facts.

Was Iraq involved in 9/11? I don't think so by any means.
Never said so either. But since we're in Iraq- and they're coming to fight, why not, to paraphase the Koran,"kill the enemy where you find him"?

You may not call that the "war on terror", but it's the only way we will win this war.

Rosstaman-

The Iraqi government was elected- it's not a puppet.

Clinton was not impeached for a consensual affair- Clinton was impeached for perjury.

I agree that the war in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11.

Bill Clinton, Sandy Berger, Richard Clark- all believed Sadamm was hiding something, probably some form of WMD. Bush had no need to make the crap up- the CIA had passed on bad intel to every President since 1992.

As far as environmental issues, I feel we need a "Manhattan Project" type effort to free us from dependency on fossil fuels.

A woman's right to choose? I'm not anti-abortion, but the constitution grants no such right. The high court issued the right. If Roe v. Wade were overturned tomorrow, it would not negate abortion rights the way you may think. The issue would be kicked back to the states for state-by-state determination.

I'm not a Bush defender. I think he's actually doing a lousy job in many respects. I am however tired of the baseless rhetoric tossed about as fact by people today.