2. amps-preamps
  3. 149424-133172

2000-2500 USD budget for an integrated amplifier. Do amplifiers sound the same? :)

Hey guys!

My first post here! Great community here!

I recently bought a pair of Klipsch Forte III and I’m thinking about upgrading my current budget amplifier Cambridge CXA60. My budget is around 2500 USD. I hope you guys can give me a few insights. Cheers!


Current setup:

  • Macbook Pro
  • Network streamer + DAC: Chord Mojo + Poly
  • Amplifier: Cambridge CXA60 (60 watt)
  • Speakers: Klipsch Forte III, 99db sensitivity
  • Subwoofer: Klipsch R-115SW
  • The room is pretty small: 4*6 meters (roughly 13*19 ft) but very well acoustically treated (I covered all the power corners with GIK acoustics bass Tritraps and Soffit + complete acoustic treatment on early reflection points

The Cambridge amp sounds nice with the Fortes but I feel like I’m missing out on something. I don’t know what "something" actually, since I haven’t paired the Fortes with anything yet but the Cambridge.

So the crucial question is: should I upgrade?

I’ve been considering integrated amps like the Rotel RA 1592 and the Peachtree nova300.

I know that it’s kind of an overkill to drive the Forte III with respectively 200 watts (Rotel) and 300 watts (Peachtree).

However knowing myself, I might upgrade the whole system (speakers included) in like 4-5 years or so. And it might be nice to have a capable high powered amp around (with lots of power headroom) so I won’t need to spend further capital again on a new amplifier in a few years.

On the other hand, I feel like I’m wasting quite a bit of money buying a powerful integrated amplifier right now. At the end of the day the Cambridge CXA60’s got 60 watt and it is more than sufficient to drive the Forte III.

This leads to another thing that’s bugging me… The sound quality of an amplifier! People like Ethan Wiener argue in a very convincing way that when compared evenly, the sonic differences between amplifiers operated below clipping are below the audible threshold of human hearing.

This guy summarized this view here:

https://jakekuyser.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/do-hi-fi-amplifiers-sound-alike/


Furthermore I’ll most probably have Sonarworks room digital EQ correction toggled on all the time to remove all the equipment unwanted colorations. These colorations might sound nice, but I’m more of a "I want to hear what the artist intended" type of a listener.

(((To me Sonarworks was an eye opener when I first used it to calibrate my Sennheiser HD800.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2017/8/24/headphone-shootout-sennheiser-hd800-vs-hd800s

It made me think about the extreme amount of the self delusion nature in the audiophile community. Many audiophiles rave about the alleged flat response of the HD800 when there are indisputable peaks at 5,5kHz and 11kHz, plus very very weak bass. Without correction they’re almost annoying to me and they definitely do not deliver what the artist/sound engineers intended. However, these cans are very often just described as extremely revealing, clinical, unforgiving… which eventually led to the claim that the HD800 is picky regarding the amp…)))

Questions:

  1. So considering that I’ll most probably have Sonarworks room digital EQ correction toggled on all the time to remove all the equipment unwanted colorations, do you guys still think that I might be able to get a "better" sound by upgrading the Cambridge to a more powerful amp, like the the Rotel RA 1592 and the Peachtree nova300?
  2. Is it worth to spend 2000-2500 USD more for this? Or should I use this money for a better DAC or a network streamer?

Sorry guys for this long post!

Cheers,

Egoq


egoquaero
audionoobie's avatar
audionoobie
355 posts
 

For $2k - $2.5k you could do a lot worse than the Belles Aria.

If you want to strech your budget a little or buy used, the Rogue Pharoah sounds terrific. Ultimately I wanted tube, so I went with the Cronus Magnum, but it was a tricky decision.

And no, amplifiers DO NOT all sound the same.

Cheers,
Joe

noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Hello auxinput,

     Yes, I was messing with you just enough to not be offensive but still make my point.  I am a big fan of class D but it's not a blind loyalty.  If there are shortcomings I'm very interested to know about them.
     The frustrating aspect for me is that most of the shortcomings of class D I hear from individuals are typically just anecdotal claims without any logical theories or relevant information to support their claims. If I don't discern their claimed class D deficiency, there's no evidence that others discern the same deficiency and not even a theory explaining why this deficiency exists is offered, then I'm unable to determine whether this is an actual class D deficiency or just a false claim by someone who is unreasonably biased against class D.  I suggest I have no incentive or logical reason to take such anecdotal claims seriously. 
  For example, your claim of class D lacking an extended and airy treble is to me an anecdotal claim that you made without any logical theory or relevant information given to support your claim. I don't detect this claimed deficiency in any of my class D amps I own or those I've listened to, you claim reviewers have noticed and mentioned this same deficiency but cite no references and offer no logical theory attempting to explain why this deficiency exists, then I have difficulty determining whether this is an actual class D deficiency or just a false claim.  I again suggest I have no incentive or logical reason to take the claim, that class D lacks an extended and airy treble response, seriously.  
     Put more simply, I'm always going to trust my own perceptions of what I hear or don't hear over anecdotal claims from others.  The truth is that if I don't perceive my class D amps as having a lack of an extended and airy treble, then by definition I only perceive an extended and airy treble.
     Of course, I realize it's a possibility that you and some others could be perceiving class D treble as not extended and airy while I and some others perceive class D treble as very extended and airy due to some currently unknown reasons that could be the result of the dynamics of class D technology itself or the differences between how individuals perceive class D reproduced sound or even some combination of the two.       If this is the case, then you're right that some individuals are just lucky.  Well, I think this is a diplomatic way to end our discussion.  Hopefully, meaningful discoveries will be made on this subject in the near future.

     In the meantime I agree with you that we should just buy what we love.

Tim
auxinput
2,920 posts
 
tim, wow, I would suggest to calm down on the arrogance.  I'm already agreeing that Class D would be a great suggestion for the OP, yet you're taking this to the extreme and finding any reason to pound me and making you "right".
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Hello auxinput,

     Arrogance?  That's me being polite and diplomatic.  I prefer to just call 'em like I see 'em, communicate in a direct and honest manner and try not to offend anyone in the process.  I think, if you reread my post, you'll discover I adhered to these general principles.
     However, I realize none of us have control over how others perceive our communications.  My intention was not to convey arrogance and it's unfortunate that you perceived this from my words that were consciously and carefully chosen in an effort not to offend you or anyone else.
     From a constructive thread standpoint, I think it's important that we both agree that class D could be a good option for the OP with the caution that some individuals, for currently unknown reasons, perceive deficiencies in the performance of class D amps that others do not perceive.


Thanks,
  Tim
Post removed 
More to discover