2000-2500 USD budget for an integrated amplifier. Do amplifiers sound the same? :)


Hey guys!

My first post here! Great community here!

I recently bought a pair of Klipsch Forte III and I’m thinking about upgrading my current budget amplifier Cambridge CXA60. My budget is around 2500 USD. I hope you guys can give me a few insights. Cheers!


Current setup:

  • Macbook Pro
  • Network streamer + DAC: Chord Mojo + Poly
  • Amplifier: Cambridge CXA60 (60 watt)
  • Speakers: Klipsch Forte III, 99db sensitivity
  • Subwoofer: Klipsch R-115SW
  • The room is pretty small: 4*6 meters (roughly 13*19 ft) but very well acoustically treated (I covered all the power corners with GIK acoustics bass Tritraps and Soffit + complete acoustic treatment on early reflection points

The Cambridge amp sounds nice with the Fortes but I feel like I’m missing out on something. I don’t know what "something" actually, since I haven’t paired the Fortes with anything yet but the Cambridge.

So the crucial question is: should I upgrade?

I’ve been considering integrated amps like the Rotel RA 1592 and the Peachtree nova300.

I know that it’s kind of an overkill to drive the Forte III with respectively 200 watts (Rotel) and 300 watts (Peachtree).

However knowing myself, I might upgrade the whole system (speakers included) in like 4-5 years or so. And it might be nice to have a capable high powered amp around (with lots of power headroom) so I won’t need to spend further capital again on a new amplifier in a few years.

On the other hand, I feel like I’m wasting quite a bit of money buying a powerful integrated amplifier right now. At the end of the day the Cambridge CXA60’s got 60 watt and it is more than sufficient to drive the Forte III.

This leads to another thing that’s bugging me… The sound quality of an amplifier! People like Ethan Wiener argue in a very convincing way that when compared evenly, the sonic differences between amplifiers operated below clipping are below the audible threshold of human hearing.

This guy summarized this view here:

https://jakekuyser.wordpress.com/2016/05/23/do-hi-fi-amplifiers-sound-alike/


Furthermore I’ll most probably have Sonarworks room digital EQ correction toggled on all the time to remove all the equipment unwanted colorations. These colorations might sound nice, but I’m more of a "I want to hear what the artist intended" type of a listener.

(((To me Sonarworks was an eye opener when I first used it to calibrate my Sennheiser HD800.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2017/8/24/headphone-shootout-sennheiser-hd800-vs-hd800s

It made me think about the extreme amount of the self delusion nature in the audiophile community. Many audiophiles rave about the alleged flat response of the HD800 when there are indisputable peaks at 5,5kHz and 11kHz, plus very very weak bass. Without correction they’re almost annoying to me and they definitely do not deliver what the artist/sound engineers intended. However, these cans are very often just described as extremely revealing, clinical, unforgiving… which eventually led to the claim that the HD800 is picky regarding the amp…)))

Questions:

  1. So considering that I’ll most probably have Sonarworks room digital EQ correction toggled on all the time to remove all the equipment unwanted colorations, do you guys still think that I might be able to get a "better" sound by upgrading the Cambridge to a more powerful amp, like the the Rotel RA 1592 and the Peachtree nova300?
  2. Is it worth to spend 2000-2500 USD more for this? Or should I use this money for a better DAC or a network streamer?

Sorry guys for this long post!

Cheers,

Egoq


egoquaero

Showing 4 responses by auxinput

I have several thoughts on this discussion, but one thing stood out for me:

He's got a set of studio monitors but often we need to check our work on this Klipsch Forte III hifi system.

You are saying that you use this system as sort of a "mastering reference' for recording and mixing.  I would keep in mind that the Klipsch speakers are very excellent and sound very "live" and "lively", however the horn drivers are very forgiving and soft in the high frequencies.  This means they are not as clean/clear or as ruthlessly revealing as other speakers.  This may not be what you want if you are "checking the master mix".  You really want to make sure your mix sounds good on an extremely revealing system as well as a budget low end system (at least that's the goal, right?).

That being said, if you switch out the speakers, you may find that the Cambridge will sound rather solid-state and sterile in comparison to what you heard with the Klipsch horn speakers.  So, it may come down to replacing both the speaker and the amp.  It depends on how important the "enjoyment" of the system is to you.  Or if you are just using it as a "tool for master mix check".  Or, you may end up liking the Cambridge just fine with new speakers.  I would also agree that tube amp is not the answer as tubes will generally be even slower and warmer sounding than solid state.  As a listener, the combo with Klipsch may be very nice to listen to, but keep in mind that tubes can also be very colored sounding and will not be as revealing as solid-state.
Actually, Class D amps may not be a bad suggestion for the OP.   The newer Class D amps, especially the nCore models, are extremely clean clear sounding.  I have heard that recording engineers love these because it allows them to hear every single instrument in the mix (because it is so damn clean, it provides excellent "separation of instruments" in music, especially when things get really busy with a ton of different types of sounds).  The downside is that the Class D "sound" is not for everyone.  I am particularly sensitive to the current Class D "lack of high frequency extension and air".   Also, many of the Class D offerings use switching power supply.  The ATI AT52x and AT54x models are one of the only nCore offerings that have a full linear power supply.  There are other options, such as PS Audio or even Nord Acoustics (that use the discrete Sonic Imagery op amps for input stage).  So in the end, Class D might allow egoquaro to listen critically to mixed masters, but it may not be as engaging as other Class AB amps.
Well, now that wasn't condescending, was it? Lol.  This lack of high frequency extension and air is a common response to current Class D offerings.   I have even heard this through the extremely expensive BLACK amps.  It even shows up in reviews (just read the review for the ATI Class D amps).  If you cannot hear this then you are one of the lucky few who do not have as sensitive hearing.  But alas, just buy what you love.  Like I said, there are many that love Class D.
tim, wow, I would suggest to calm down on the arrogance.  I'm already agreeing that Class D would be a great suggestion for the OP, yet you're taking this to the extreme and finding any reason to pound me and making you "right".