12BZ7 ///12AX7

,,,wait a  minute,,Not $50 each, I am bidding ona  Philips Miniwatt E80,,,ends in 4 hours Current bid
~~$114/10ship~~~
UNREAL.
Thats crazy,,, as i say,,
IMHO
all E80's , are near equal, the sonics are so ~~Miniscule~~ (as my tech guy in  Bato Rouge would say) , its not worthm paying more than $50 each. 
at least in today's, jan 2020 selling price.
Just think if word gets out about this tube as a  ~~Super Tube~~ swap for the AU.
Prices could double over night.
Once I see prices jumping, I am going to load up and scalp later.
I've lost so much money on buying and selling tubes past 2 years, time for me to make it back/ anyway, back to 
12BZ7.
If that tube pops the AX section in my Defy,,thats another tube that could jump in prices.
They go cheap now. 

The Philips E80CC sold for
~~~~~~ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTYYYYYYYY <<<WORTHLESS>>> USA DOLLARS~~~~~~
UNREAL.
WOW,,I am stocking up,
when i pay off my $5K paypal I will load up 100+ E80CC’s, if you want a E80CC, you will have to go THROUGH ME.
lol

@ Mulveling, Its about time someone tells 
It eaxtaly as needs be siad
*basic AU suck* including the Holy graisl,,,note even Siemens/Teles AU's can be had pretty cheap.
Its the AX's which go for GOLD.
Yes there are at least 2 or 3 other tubes can be ub for the AU;'s.


@ 
noromance
Great find, well done my friend, backs up some of my findings on the E80CC.
I have to disagree in part,, yet agree in other ideas made from this 2000 post on Audioasylum

*The E80CC projects a  very odd sound stage,,,~~~indeed it does~~~which gives a  MUCH LARGER THAN LIFE SOUNDSTAGE~~~ Indeed. 
My defy was dead, and could not sing due to the Class D chinese clone jadis  preamp,,,with the employment of the E80CC, the jadis came to life, though still at Class B/C fq resolution..Still, thats better than the Class C/D fq resolution with the AU's employed.
~~~~VERY VERY HIFI SOUNDING~~~ The E80CC is High Fidelighy. 
The AU is Low Fidelity = Class C tube. The E80CC is a a Class A design. 
The author goes on to say
~~~ we need futher testing to make a  complete testing vs the AU..~~~
lastly he suggests that his questioner, just avoid the E80CC and stick with 
~~The old tried and true~~
AU.
Based on my testing, the E80CC is The King of all AU's, while all others/Siemens/Teles are mere rogues in comparison.
Now i am on to  discovering the 
~~King of all AX's~~~
which i do believe have found in the 
,,well the Valve Museum does not list a  
12bz7
does list its cousin
The 12BH7A
The build of this 12BZ7 looks identical to the AX design, except a  taller version...

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aaa1764.htm

The 12bz7's go cheap on ebay,,now after my testing and following up witha  YT vid, that market price might jump.

Note how mucha  single Philips mini watt E80 got today on ebay,,~~$150~~!!!
lsiting says, pinch waist/D ring,,= pure snakeoil.

A E80CC is a  E80CC is a E80CC. The Siemens did, if memory serves me, makea  miniscule pop in fq resolution,,,yet i need to  makea  further testing vs the Philips E80, maybe tomorrow. 
The author in the above Audioasylum mentioned the Philips was superior to Tungstrum,,,which i might also believe is true. But as i say, the pop is so miniscule, its reallya  matter of what you are willing to pay.
A system which lacks the sensitivity to pick up the added fq resolution  of the Siemens, may do equally as well just to grab any E80CC.
As I say, in order fora  Class A tube to operate in 
~~~pure class A~~~ resolution,  the system has to possess ~~Class A sensitivity~~.
My preamp is Class D, The Cayin Class A/B The Thors Class A/B , thus the Lite LS9 pre(Class D) drags the entire Class A/B system down to class B/C. 
Yet in spite of this drag on the resolution, the Defy with its Class A build, does quite well at registering the incredible life offered by the sublime E80CC. 
I've got my work cut out over the next 6 months, and slowly but surely hope to acheieve Class A/B resolution by mid summer. 
In 2021 I hope to achieve 
Pure Class A Resolution of fq's. 

Jadis always *Please relate all concerns to our USA representative dealer*.
Bluebird, i believe, which is a dead end as for *~~cap I swap tubes,,,~~~
~~what we suggest,,,,,,~~ no doubt will be the answer..
As Blue and Jadis do not want to give the green light and if a curcuit blows, , can’t take the risk for blame..
Seems to me is the system is working with the E80’s, and no shorting/crackles, whistles, pops, then just let it play.
The Defy with AU’s does not offer the fq resolution, forward sound stage, that i require ina amp,.
= I am willing to risk possible issues.
EU E80CC = 12bh7, at least from looking at the 2 designs.
I just boughta bunch of bh’s along witha bunch of bz’s.
The bh’s i will try in the AU section and the bz’s in the Defy’s AX section, will post later this week how these 2 tube rolls went off.
maybe evena YT vid with the new bz’s and bh’s.

OK so the
12bh7 = EU E99CC.

~~Ck with your amp manufacturer~~~
(a bit late for the roll to the E80CC)
https://www.tubesforamps.com/products/12bh7

Those spec sheets on the 
BH/BZ/AX, all look similiar.
But note:
I am never using the vol on the preamp with much gain, My room is 10X12/8 ft ceiling, why crank it up??
= No reason at all.
The Jadis's trans , inspite of RUMORS of a  *previous model* (a  rumor I ain;'t buying). , the Jadis builds like tanks, indestructible. 
If the BZ, BZ has over heating issues, the tube will blow before anything inisde the Jadis./

Besides there are resistors inside the Jadis, either the  resist or tube will blow,,,
I will carefully note the BZ/BH's temp, while employed.

Also I made some changes in my speaker wiring, Added silver to the copper.
Thing is, as i was making that mod,,i noted one biwire was crossed wrong. I had one neg going to the opposite post, That is the left channel had 
the black lines crisscrossed, and THIS was no doubt causing HAVOC/HIGH DISTORTION in that cahnnel and completely annihiliating /destroying, mulitiating the fq resolution. 
.
So correcting that ~~unforgivable~~ error  
OKUS adding the silver sterling 92% silver line with fat copper strand.
= the resolution of fq's in super.
This Jadis sings now.
When I put more vol on the Lite LS9  Jadis clone, there is no ~~complete breakdown~~~ of fq's = the high level of distortion (which i attributed to the pre's low level of build quality) has all disappeared.
Perhaps the added silver did nothing at all to gain high fq resolution..= IOW was the whole issue the crisscrossed speaker wires??
Or did thev added silver add a  clean, clear, nice gain in resolution???
I have no idea and will not make any experiements with 
all copper vs 
silver/copper.
Time constraints.
The Bz/s'Bh's , will arrive late this week, will report back on how that tube roll went off. 
Let me finsih by saying the sound is completely 
~Non Fatiguing~ = Zero fatigue Factor~~ (aka ZFF)
I loistened to Mahavishnu Orchestra, Live Central park, and wasblown away at what serenity overcame me , which never on previous systems experienced.
That record is not high fidelity studio, Diana Krall was mesmerizing. 
I could retire from this mod adventure with what i am getting from the system. 
But as a  seeker of high fidelity, this desire to make futher discoveries is calling me onwards.
I have 20 M SGO caps to be employed in my cayin cd 17 Mark1.
later this year will rebuild the Thors xovers with M high level caps. 
Along with the cayin SC6.
The SC6 employs 4 AU's,,well you already know what i plan to do, and will ck the E80CC's tempt while in play, and also the heat level on tops of trans. 
Cayin is like Jdais, build quality impeccable, ~~build like tanks~
YT vid update comming  Sunday. will post a  link.
But as a  DIY member noted, a  YT vid offers little in forminga  opinion on a stereo sound.
I agree in part only.
After listening to countless YT uploads of stereo's in performance, I can now  hear through the compressed replay.

Here is a  example froma  YT vid with a  guy showing off the M high level caps mod in his amp. 
I can hear the M caps singing GORGEOUS.

Not the vid I was looking for , yet another testimony to M caps singing ~~Like Angels~~~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vLTeIDuWmM


Here is the reference vid i was looking for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfqWgHqiPwQ

Now listen to this Class D/Class F sound with Jadis; audition room at a  stereo show

This is not the vid I was looking for, but it will work, showing how a  speaker can drag down a  complete $100K Jadis set up, to ~~Class F ~~ sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIut7iVo7DM&t=291s


and note carefully in this vid, where you can see one of the best mid/tweets ever made.
The Seas Millenium!!!, UNREAL, either the xover design/parts or that mid range is driving the entire Jadis + Millenium down to grade
Class F. 
No I can not grant a  ~~Grade D~~ to this horrific atrocious sound level. 
This is from a  Munich 2019 show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzbz4b09bH8

So agisnt the opinion of the DIY member, a  stereo 's quality of resolution can be noted, at least on most vids. If you have a  
1) trained ear/sensibility 
2) practice makes perfect
3) listening attentively
4)  replay as often as needed to draw some conclusions.
Every Jadis showroom upload on YT, , has these horrific speaker set ups, dragging, what otherwise could be a  Pure Class A sound down to
~~Pure Class D~~ And in this Munich show, down to  pure class F Minus resolution of fq's. 

BZ7’s arrived, = No go, 12AX7’s out shot the BZ’s in every area.
Now i am on witness a shoot out twix several AX’s
RCA Tall Black Plates vs
 Philips Miniwatt vs
Shugaung T series vs
Siemens  ,
~~~USA vs
Gerjmany vs
Holland vs
China~~~~~
One of these 4 finalists will be given a ~~~Gold Medal~~Silver Medal~~Bronze Medal~~Copper Medal.
,i have no idea howm this Olympic battle will go down.
All 4 are Legenday and may result in all receiving Gold = Miniscule dif.
also want to try Baldwin Organ AX’s. which i am guessing is a RCA.
IMHO Philips is Amperex SQ , made in the legendary Herleen plant,
Phlips Mini watts = Amperex Bugle Boys.
what it comes down to is this
All NOS (rated at least strong) are near equalin voicing. The more important concern are what caps are employed in the amps design.
Tech guys with testing equipment lay claim that if low price cap A tests near equal to high price cap B, then sonaiclly both with sound very sililiar ina amp.
Yet my concern is the limitations imposed by measurable equipment.
IOW I believe there may be more to a cap’s voicing of music, that can not be meausredn ~~~~completely with NUANCES~~~ by a test screen.
Its kinda of likea botanist studing flowers. A text book along with disections/images, still misses the flower in its own enviornment in full bloom.
someone over at DIY mentioned it is near impossible to determine the sound quality of a unit, based ona compressed YT vid witha low level mic/camcorder.
True and yet not so true.
I have skill at listening to what a unit sunds like in real time. If you can not hear the high fidelity of these M caps, you need a hearing aid.
The M caps glorious sing the muisc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfqWgHqiPwQ

Yes 5751, horrible, 
I am bidding on  a pair of Tele, 16 hrs left,,I am winning at $81,,,tubes pulled from a  estate sale, working ociliscope, look NOS 100%, I am at top $, doubt i win. 
Might try in 2 yrs to pick upa  pair.

@lowrider57 I responded to the Q concering so called ~~Burn In Theory~~ over at my New Kids topic.
There i completely expose that scam and believe my comment is 
verifible , believebale, honest, fair, unbiased.
I put the final, last nail in 
~~The  Snakeoil Coffin* once and for all.
 @ Mulveling
Someone here on audiogon mentioned in a  post, he has tried Teles and Siemens , the Teles he found more on the ~~warm~~~ side, vs the highly detailed Siemens. 
I always go for clean/clean/details. 
I have Siemens AX's / RCA AX's /tall blacks, arriving this week. 
Look or a YT vid upload , late sunday night. 
The Mazada's , chome plates, , I recall havinga  pair, i did not like them at all.

My system now with new added silver sterling to speakerwires (16 individual wires total, = biwire 1 copper + 1 sterling 14 ga silver  = 2 X 8 = 16 insul wires,,,
and the wires are correctly employed = no criss crossing .
+ took out the E188's in the Lite LS9 Jadis clone pre and installed tyhe stock EH 12AT7's and that as well made a futher gain in details, but is more *beefier* sound, not as laid back/quiet,  as the E188's. Prefer the AT's overall. and so the AT's will remain.
My system has made some progess, and will report back on futher mods/critque.
Our goal here is to finda  path to Pure Class A resolution/highest fidelity. 
3 things , no 4 things are required
1) Patience
2) reserachreserachresearch
3) trial and error
4) $$$$$$$$