I'm auditioning the Tungsten in my system and it quite handily demolished the VooDoo Stradivarius and JPS Superconductor 3 that I was comparing against. The only IC that held its own is the much awarded and more expensive CRL Silver, which is just as good in many ways but with a sweeter tonal balance and a more prominent midrange.
What is said about the Tungsten is true -- vast, eerily holographic sound stage coupled with awesome frequency extensions. What I haven't decided is whether it is completely neutral or very slightly warm.
Has anyone compared the Tungsten with the Precision Reference? Is the Precision more neutral of the two? |
Currently auditioning Tranquility Base. Didn't think it made much difference, if any, initially. It turned out a few of the active connections in the system had come off inadvertently. When I restored the connections, there was a pretty considerable difference for the better with the Base on. A fellow audiophile confirmed what heard as well.
The addition of the Base under my source is providing a noticeable improvement in both imaging and depth of soundstage. In addition, both the highs and lows are a bit more clear and defined, while at the same time managing to be more musical as well. The greatest difference is heard when I turn the Base off.
My system is pretty resolving, so I was and am surprised to hear as much of a difference as I have. I understand the premise, just didn't think it would make such a noticeable positive difference. It has so far and I have John at The Cable Company to thank for turning me on to this Base. |
Wait till SR comes out with the active base you place under the chair/seat you place your butt on.Wider deeper taller bigger fuller
After that for all new home construction we have the new active base that is installed in the foundation of the new home with 220 power running on it. Massive sound stage with deeper wider taller and all that other lingo. |
What would be the price of that? Probably a house re-mortgage. |
Has any one compared the Tranquility Basik to the Base? I guess it baffles me
how the price can double by just adding a few more layers and a grounding
plane. |
I once heard a very interesting talk by a John Camille on what it would take to achieve 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 db of signal to noise. His conclusion was that 60 and even 70 were doable. That 80 was achievable with great difficulty and that 90 could be achieved only by impractical means such as encasing components in half inch thick steel with no holes anywhere! 100 db was, he said, God's country.
I have found that charged cables are a very great improvement at least in our modern world with all the EMI and RFI around. I suspect that were we to put everything into a Faraday cage, we would all hear an improvement and listening in a room that was a Faraday cage would be better yet.
Yes, Scott, I suspect better isolation and a grounding plane would make some difference. I think putting one on top the unit would also. But would it be very great? I don't know. Long ago I realized that isolation was important also, and I experienced modest improvements. Later I was shocked at the improvement given with the SR MIGs and even more by the StillPoint Ultra SSs and Ultra Fives. This was well beyond what I thought was possible. All that I will conclude now is, "try it!" |
Right you are Tbg. The StillPoint Ultra SS footers are amazing. However, they
are not a good solution for my Macbook Pro. Most importantly, what I am looking for is a platform that can provide a more organic midrange for my Macbook Pro. An increase in sound staging would be a bonus. Just wondering
if I can achieve both with the Basik. Looks like I will just have to try them when
I get the time.
Anyone who has compared the two, please do share. |
I recently traded in my Powercell 10SE Mk.2 for a Powercell 10SE Mk.3 with The Cable Company. They are my dealer who facilitated the Lifetime Passport trade-in program that Synergistic Research offers on their products.
Synergistic states: The MK. 3s Electromagnetic Cell has ramped up performance with the addition of precious metals at critical points within the cell structure along with a newly developed groud plane, which was developed during the Tranquility research program. |
Joey.... so how does it sound in your own words compared to the MK-2?.
Thanks. |
I have a Tranquility Base and Basik and one thing I found odd was that the Basik has square corners and the Base has rounded corners. Not a huge deal but esthetically they should round the corners on the Basic...they will match better.....
Regards Bacardi |
Joeyboynj, Just for my clairty. The Lifetime Passport trade-in program means you had to purchase items costing twice as much as you traded in to get 70% off the trade in.
In other words you had to buy $10,000 of equipment to trade in your $5000 Powercell to get $3000 for it. Meaning you had to come up with $7000 to purchase the $5000 new Powercell and etc items.
Is that correct? |
Joeyboynj, Just for my clairty. The Lifetime Passport trade-in program means you had to purchase items costing twice as much as you traded in to get 70% off the trade in.
In other words you had to buy $10,000 of equipment to trade in your $5000 Powercell to get $3000 for it. Meaning you had to come up with $7000 to purchase the $5000 new Powercell and etc items.
Is that correct? |
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The Base is the one to get, if you are going to do this. It has the full technology. The Basik does not - which is probably why it has not gotten much attention. |
I just replaced my CTS SR demo ics between source and preamp with High End cables' CT-1 from my old buddy Rick Schultz, since I couldn't get what I thought was a fair deal on the SR's from Cable co. Glad I'm trying Rick's cables - big improvement over the CTS in my system and less than 1/2 price of CTS(faster, better detail, more organic).
Kool-aid comes in different flavors. Sometimes we forget that simple fact..... |
Correction: High FIDELITY CT-1 ics. |
I recently traded in my Powercell 10SE MkII for a Mk.III because I liked the reviews it was getting. The new PowerCell 10SE Mk III differs from the MkII is that it has a new ground plane (Tranquility Base built in) in the EM cell. I can confirm the new ground plane delivers a significant increase in air in a larger sound field, low frequencies are also tighter with more apparent punch and control and the blacker noise floor. Plus even better ambient retrieval. From near zero you hear subtle details and micro transients that make recordings sound more alive this is the greatest effect on my system. So if youre looking for higher/more performance with your electricity give the new version a try. But I also recommend if you are perfectly happy with your current version and dont feel like you need to upgrade its OK to be happy with what you got. Both units are superb. I would have definitely not have been feeling like I was cheated cause of the new unit came out. Again, both are awesome units. |
Joeyboynj,
I just accomplished something dramatic -- like what you are describing -- by placing a 1" x 1" x 2" neodymium magnet 3" under my Bybee Stealth power conditioner that is in series with my Powercell 10SE MK II power conditioner. The cost was $18 on Amazon. Give it a try. The difference is stunning. |
I tried the SR stuff all the way to the Apex with the expensive Galileo MPC's....Yes I drank lots of the SR formula. They produced a holographic sound that was cool but did not sound like live music (un-natural). I have since found the best and most musical line of cabling I have ever heard which are the Von Schweikert Master Built (by Delphi Aerospace) and they simply make beautiful music regardless of whether a power cord, interconnect or speaker cable. They are not cheap but neither is the SR stuff which changes every other week. The word is musical! |
Thankful,
You stated about SR cables, "They produced a holographic sound that was cool but did not sound like live music (un-natural).". I agree. I own many SR products. There is a certain level of holography that they produce, but it is nowhere near the level of naturalness of the HiDiamond cables that I am now running -- at a fraction of the cost of SR cables. HiDiamond is giving SR more than a run for their money. In today's "new normal" economy HiDiamond came on the scene at the best possible time for customers. Their line may start to change at some point but they have had the same line for a very long time. I have no experience with the Von Schweikert cables so I cannot comment. |
Sabai, Why would you try power conditioner in series? That is like saying that a drug you use is working so you should take twice as much. I have three conditioners I am considering presently. None are those you are considering. Each has to be done and compared, although this makes for a long term A/B comparison, given that you have to change all the wires into each and then await their recovery from being unplugged and for the components to warm up. Also each needs to be compared with just plugging into the wall. As I have 11 things to plug in, this is a cumbersome assessment. |
Tbg,
I have a complex front end in series -- isolation transformer > power regenerator > Bybee Stealth power conditioner. This approach has been discussed on other site forums. I do most everything in series. If you can find the right combinations the results can be stunning -- far superior to running cables and front end in the conventional way -- one of everything. |
Sabai, I hear a muddled mess. You should start with a nuclear generator. |
Tbg,
Sorry, that should have read isolation transformer > Bybee Stealth power conditioner > power regenerator. |
Tbg,
This is like those who comment on the sound quality of audio equipment they have never heard. You may hear a muddled mess but that's because you have not heard my system -- with all due respect. You have an open invitation to visit. I have not spent the last 7 years wasting my time, energy and money. I'm not that dumb -- or that hard of hearing. |
Sabai, of course, you are suggesting that I have not tried this. In the past I did. Some of these will fight each other, but do what you want. |
Synergistic has just released an entirely new line of power cables. Has anyone here heard the new Synergistic Research Element Hologram A and D and also the Element Copper, Element Tungsten and Element Copper/Tungsten power cords? And yes, these are replacing the older Tesla line of power cables. More importantly has anyone COMPARED these to HiDiamond? Cost set a side...until you try them in your system and hear for yourself, No one can conclude that HiDiamond's power cord is better than Synergistic's Element power cables. |
HD is just a copper cable and cheap ends. You get what you pay for. $600.00 for a AC cable is a fair price for a copper cable. |
Glory,
Before making such uninformed comments it behooves you to become informed of the facts by visiting the HD site to see how they actually make their unique cables. I wonder why we are reading so many amazing reviews of HD cables on these forums if they are simply copper with cheap ends. Of course, your claim is totally false as shown by the facts of the painstaking manufacturing process. Cheap ends? Puleeease. It appears you have never even seen an HD cable -- or you would never make such a comment. I own a full loom of HD cables. They are the most amazing cables I have ever owned. |
What are these HD cables? |
Sabai, as to your claim, that so many audiophiles are raving about HiDiamond. Well I can only find a handful, as in less then 5 people shilling HiDiamond while attempting to tear down competing brands. This smells fishy to me. |
I recommend the Master Built (by Delphi Aerospace) cabling across the board. They are in a different league than SR. Extremely musical. You don't have to hook up several $400 MPC's. |
Joeyboynj,
There is nothing fishy at all about HiDiamond cables. They are the real thing -- and there are a heck of a lot more than 5 people saying so. And, as Thankful just pointed out, "You don't have to hook up several $400 MPC's." In fact, the SR Galileo MPCs cost over $500 each for overseas customers like me.
One should be very careful about using the word shill. Would you say the same thing about someone who liked SR cables and who wrote about their preference on the forums? Do you mean the new guy on the block, HiDiamond, has to be put under a microscope because they are selling superior cables at a much more reasonable price than SR cables who, on top of out-of-this-world cable prices, charge a very hefty price for extra Galileo MPCs. Do you mean with the old guy on the block, everything goes -- including $1,800 power cords that used to work that no longer work but that's OK because there is an "explanation" for it?
By the way, I am not connected in any way with the audio industry -- except as a customer.
Tbg,
What are these HiDiamond cables all about? Please read the HiDiamond threads to find out what users are saying about these amazing cables. |
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Glory,
I have no idea what your agenda is but it is obviously there for all to see with your flagrant baiting. It is a sorry state of affairs when this sort of thing starts to happen on these forums -- once again. We have seen this time and again here -- people allowed to come onto forums and gratuitously trash manufacturers with information that is not only totally false but that is also intentionally malicious.
The fact is that the HiDiamonds have the very highest build quality of any cables I have ever seen -- made with graphite, 4 x purified, with obviously expensive terminations -- the most sophisticated high-end terminations that I have ever seen on any speaker cables. And the sound quality of HiDiamond cables is the best of any cables I have ever heard. So where you come off with these totally outlandish statements -- while lobbing grenades over the fence -- is totally beyond me. |
Glory;
I think if you make a statement where the world can read that statement that you make sure it is accurate so here is the actual process and materials used to build the HiDiamond Power 3 power cord;
First part of the process is starting from the raw materials; in the Power 3 there is a combination of graphite and cooper. The materials are extruded through an extruding machine at the exact diameter and length needed for that cable. Once the strands have been extruded then the strands go through a process called 4VRC; this is a process that involves cooking the strands 4 times to purify all the materials that are being used in that cable. The Power 3 is then assembled and a very high quality specially built ends are used to finish and allow for a clean signal. The Power 3 is then check before leaving Italy and one Power 3 takes approximately 10 men hours to build. I would highly recommend that you go to the HiDiamond website and look under technical data and construction of cable because there are very few manufacturers that tell you exactly how there cables are made or have 46 employees and an actual purifying process to produce such a clean sounding cable.
In NA we have sold over 1300 HiDiamond cables and our number 1 selling HiDiamond cable is the 2.0 meter Power 3 for $750.00.
Cheers, |
Sabai,
HiDiamond may be giant killer as you keep saying but no home audition or local dealer so that makes it hard to just buy on faith! |
Worldwidewholesales and Sabai,
Actually, unlike Synergistic Research, HiDiamond does not offer their cables for in home trial. If you want to try HiDiamond cables, you must first buy HiDiamond cables. When I discovered this I lost interest. I mean if their cables are so great why don't they make them readily available for in home auditions?
Anyway, my brand new Element Copper/Tungsten (32-amp), Element CTS A and Element CTS D are on their way and I'm very excited for the upgrade. I'm going to enjoy a mix of Tesla SE and Element power cables in my system. I for one trust Synergistic and Ted. I've been using Synergistic for years and I never had a complaint about how does my system. I enjoy it everyday and I just hope you all too cause come down to it thats whats its all about. My mouth drops every time I listen to my main system. To me thats what it's all about at any price level. I just got the upgrade bug and going to see what this new Element series is all about. I have years of experience with Shunyata Research, PS Audio, DCCA, Hi-Fi Tuning, Morrow, Wireworld, Audioquest, Voodoo, Virtual Dynamics, Mapleshade, Pangaea, Belkin, Monoprice to name a few. And I still enjoy, upgrade when new line is out and use these brands in my many other audio systems I own. But I prefer Synergistic Research for my main 2-channel high end system. |
Joeyboynj,
I did not lose interest at all. Why should I? How much of a gamble is it to try a power cord that has been universally acclaimed? Not much, IMO. I gambled and I won -- like the vast majority of others who have "gambled" on HiDiamond cables.
I only trust -- inside or outside the audio business -- to the extent that Ronald Reagan expressed: "Trust but verify." I trust my own experience and my own judgment. In the case of audio, I also trust my own ears. My ears have never let me down with HiDiamond cables. I have had both good and bad experiences with SR equipment.
You got an upgrade on your new SR cables? I didn't know they had an upgrade program Please provide the details. I thought they only had an "up-trade" program. Up-trade is not at all the same as upgrade. With the former you lose a substantial part of your investment. But with the latter you do not. If SR had an upgrade program for their Powercell I would not have had to take a huge haircut when I sold mine recently. If you wait long enough the Powercell you bought last year and may want to sell this year or next year may have no resale value at all.
This is the kind of think that irks me so much. A good quality amp or a pre-amp or a DAC or a transport or an isolation transformer or a power regenerator can retain a lot of its original value and, if sold off, can fetch a reasonable price even after many years.
But a power conditioner that sees one iteration after the next loses most of its value eventually -- and is eventually seen as not living up to the marketing hype that accompanied its purchase. Each iteration is accompanied with more superlative superlatives -- and each version eventually becomes redundant. It is not easy to reconcile the two halves of this coin |
I used Synergistic's upgrade (up-trade} program. Whatever it's called. I dont have money issues with Synergistic. I have always followed Ted's program and I think its plenty fair. IMO! |
Joeyboynj,
That's what I thought. I believe the SR trade-up policy works for those with deep pockets -- not for those who have to watch their budget carefully. With all due respect, if this does not present a money problem for you then your pockets must be deep enough to take the loss without feeling it. This is not my case. |
11-19-12: Joeyboynj
I used Synergistic's upgrade (up-trade} program. Whatever it's called. I dont have money issues with Synergistic. I have always followed Ted's program and I think its plenty fair. IMO!
Joeyboynj (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread) BINGO!!! Only ones with money issues complain about upgrade programs. Why not just buy what you can afford or make more money? Not surprising since we live in an ENTITLED society. Instead of taking action to improve ones situation, just complain complain
SR is growing with new product introductions, I can safely assume there are more than enough customers with the financial means to support/grow it. |
This is what I think and have experienced myself with S.R. Set your budget and be well prepared. Because once your start, you'll need to finnish. If you have many components you will need many. And that will empty the pocket rather quick. It all depends how deep your pockets are......Sabai is absolutely correct. It's just when S.R upgrades a model more often than most companies, the user tends to want to keep current and also is too curious and has-to-have it. This very well becomes a never ending road. HiDiamond may be the end for me and some others, and for what the HiDiamond gives to my system/for the money, I am glad I researched HD and followed through....... |
Knghifi,
Thus, you have agreed with what I have been saying -- that the SR line and trade-up policy is only for the well-heeled. The Basik line is not worth a pinch of coon -- it's just a token gesture to give people without deep pockets the illusion that they can also be members of the club. They cannot. Same for the trade-up policy.
All of this has nothing whatsoever to do with entitlement. It has to do with maximizing the audio value of one's hard-earned money. I imagine there are "more than enough" SR customers like yourself who don't have this problem. But, in case you did not notice or are unaware of the fact, SR is very well aware of changes in the marketplace. Their new cables are far less expensive than their previous line and they deliver more, thus destroying the value of their earlier line for resale and forcing customers into the trade-up program if they want to see anything at all back from their old cables. SR are no fools.
By the way, you may live in an entitled society but I do not. I live abroad -- in a third world country where there is no entitlement at all. |
Joeyboynj and Knghifi,
Here is another way of looking at this Powercell thing. Version 1 cost you $5,000. About 2 and a half years later version 5 will cost you $5,000. How much is your version 1 now worth? At least 80% less than your purchase price -- and perhaps your version 1 has no actual resale value in the marketplace.
So, you may be forced into an up-trade policy that says you have to spend $10,000 to get a 70% value from your old Powercell. That means you have to find another SR product you want to purchase that costs at least $10,000 which will see you a further $6,500 out of pocket -- total out of pocket in 2 and a half years comes to $11,500. Who could honestly call this a generous up-trade policy? This is what I call a "we win -- you lose" policy. And if you get cheesed off or don't have another SR product you want to buy with the up-trade -- and have the deep pockets for it -- you are out in the cold. That's the real audio world -- sans hype.
Another way of looking at this is that, 2 and a half years ago, you spent $5,000 on a product that has perhaps, if you are lucky, 20% of the sonic effectiveness of the equivalent-priced product today. How do you feel about that?
If there is one cell in version 1 and there are 2 cells in version 2 and there are 3 cells in version 3 then one might come to the reasonable conclusion that all of this was part of a carefully planned marketing scheme. This may make sense for the bottom line -- but there is another side to the coin -- the customer's side. How many times can a customer afford to up-trade? How many audiophiles have pockets deep enough to play this game? Many audiophiles have to be careful with their audio dollars while others do not.
Ultimately, IMO, this kind of policy is destructive of customer base. People start to walk away -- which is what so many are doing now. The feeling is "I've taken a huge haircut in a very short time -- and I dont like the feeling". The logical remedy for this is an upgrade policy. Thats a win-win situation. Not a win-lose situation. |
@Sabai, I agree with your post 100%. I couldn't have said it better than that... |
I have the Powercell 10SE mkII and have tried one of the Tesla power cords, so I follow this thread. Not surprising since we live in an ENTITLED society. Instead of taking action to improve ones situation, just complain complain
11-20-12: Knghifi An audiophile equipment forum is not the place to put your editorial opinions on the nature of society. |
There's a COST for enjoying/using Version 1 to the time Version 2 is released. Version 1 starts to depreciate immediately after purchase. This is true with every commodity with the exception of investments. Washing machines, toasters, computers ... For example, once a new car is driven off the lot, it has depreciated 20 to 30%. If traded it in after 5 years with 120K miles, the dealer has to consider the over head in selling it, time in inventory, market price ... basically they have to make a PROFIT in the whole transaction. So in MOST cases, it's always better to sell it yourself. Trade in or upgrade program are for consumers that don't want to deal with selling it themselves. Probably 99.9% of the time not financially advantageous. Sabai, I know you are special but I hate to break this to you, companies exist to make money and not to serve you. They can ONLY exist if profitable so is a factor in every policy decisions. Like I said, SR has been in business for a long time so I can assume the customer base supports their overall business practices. If not, SR has to change or go out of business. Another way of looking at this is that, 2 and a half years ago, you spent $5,000 on a product that has perhaps, if you are lucky, 20% of the sonic effectiveness of the equivalent-priced product today. How do you feel about that? My 1st desktop computer running Windows 3.1 cost $7500 and my latest laptop with everything top of the line cost $1750. It's call innovation, increased productivity and I LOVE it. How many times can a customer afford to up-trade? How many audiophiles have pockets deep enough to play this game? Many audiophiles have to be careful with their audio dollars while others do not. Probably 99.9% of the population has to live in some budget. If you want something bad enough, IMO, the only way is to improve your financial situation. Taking action takes MORE effort, sacrifice ... than complaining and blaming others for your short falls. By the way, you may live in an entitled society but I do not. I live abroad -- in a third world country where there is no entitlement at all. 47% in my country welcomes you with open arms or maybe 51% now ... Hmmm! 11-22-12: Bacardi
@Sabai, I agree with your post 100%. I couldn't have said it better than that...
Bacardi (Reviews | Threads | Answers | This Thread) Why am I NOT surprise. |
@Knghifi, read Foster_9's message to you....read it well..... |
