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Materialism or Idealism is hope alive? And Request

Time too revisit this debate. It seems as though I personally have been sucked into the viscious cycle of what we euphamistically call the upgraditis bug. No this is no incredibly insightful revelation , the amount of time energy and money I have invested amazes me and I am not really unhappy.
The truth is are we merely trying the spiritually vaapid practice of materialism . Money a toys can't buy you happiness. Funny thing about that is being pooor can really suck. I think a certain kind of happiness can be bought. The best kind however has some driving principle that you are seeking out the most righteuos path in your audiopath. To the Monks there is the less than flea watt SET approach with the most minimalistic circuit possible but so pure only the rarest materials and 80 Y.O NOS tube only one no rectiiers etc. may be used. Eventually it seems this path becomes a downgradititis just as you thought an epiphanyof the final word ingood taste had enlightened you. That uncooked vegetable no seasononing cut precisley as fresh as possible gave way toa torential carnivore eating 2 and three pound prime as could be mostly raw aged porterhouse steak was what you knew was the best thing youever ate and to cut the crap . Yougorge on big all class A no platueas neveer severalhundred pound amps hot enough to cook that steak light bulb dimming power and speakers so big, bass so low, warm but not fuzzy mids and highs the salt shakes all over the table. Grinding fragrant but biting black pepper until you develop carpal tunnel syndrome. You found your center no pretense. That starving half to death was not what you felt it was a downgrade.
With the aquisition of new gear the disciplined auiophile rids himself or herself of the gear that serves the same function. Demographically, much more hims with supporting or detracting Ws or equivelants Mainly Ws I am assuming but cripes if I know or give a **** what some you do well ...leave the kids out of it OK.
If we know what is ideal why do so many end up with a collection of different pieces of equipment and accesories cables, tubes, half broken stuff I have it for what I don't know forever. It never works as a tweak for me only a potential weapon unlike those pebbles.
It all started because I like music. Now Ilike equipment as well. I find some inane excuse to hold onto much of my previous equipment choices. Yes variety is great but I really can listen to so much.Time is a limited resource
I will bring myself to a pack rat anonymous meeting when I hit bottom. Audiogon will be repleat with ads when I recover. I like my favorite performances somuch I don't care if the recording is wanting and frankly sounds terrible.
Although I like the music even more so if I think it sounds good.
Beyond that there is an incessant and compulsive belief there is always something better yet, to be discovered. I am pleased when I listen to what I have.I think man that sounds great, really. I have heard different equipment HOWEVER that seemed to sound even better or in my case just a different approach which appeals to me in some way....
How many read these classified pages routinely ? How many read product reviews routinely? Once I got my first taste of tweaking it was like what Niel Young describes as "a setting sun"
Agon help! Help us see the light, Help us break the bonds our own materialism and come to our senses propose guidelines,a code of ethics, such as nomore than 4 pairs quads etc of a particular tube.Banishment for grossly misrepresenting any item.
We must police it ourselves lest The government might step in and do what the people of for and by want beat up the men... always tax what mostly men favor... one day the G-men will discover this addiction and punish the victims No Icouldn't say when we may not exist as anything meaniongful a fraction of a generation from now or a rennaisance will occur and NOS power tubes auctions on Agon will generate as much publicity as a Van Gough does at Sothebys or Christies.
How about an amnesty period once a year when a "great trading month" will be designated. Multiple items (within limits) in one ad. Or serious discount for all types of ads. The blood will be in the water as the frenzied audiosharks feed off each other. Then peace and momentary satisfaction. PleaseOffer your own morning rant to any notion herein vetted
mechans
blackstonejd
153 posts
 
I have a theory that the vast majority of digital “upgraditis” cases are actually caused by the inherent limitations of redbook CD. The source is the most important component of any audio chain yet digital audiophiles have settled for a source the specifications of which were frozen in the late 1970s.

The underlying problem for most audiophiles is that they are stuck in a paradox—the more they upgrade the more they hear the limitations of the CD format. This narrows their choice of music to only choice audiophile recordings and this leads to boredom.

I always suspected that redbook CD was a poor format for an audio hobbyist, but I did not realize how poor it really was until I began investigating SACD and CD upsampling. With high-resolution audio or properly upsampled CD, the paradox is broken because the source is finally worthy of scrutiny.

If you are spending a lot of money upgrading a CD based system and aren’t satisfied, you don’t have upgraditis. Chances are you are simply one of the many audiophiles caught in the CD paradox. The upside is that there is a good chance that your investment in speakers and amplification would pay off, if you had the proper digital front end.

It is my hope that the rise of iPods, music servers, and digital distribution will “unfreeze” the market from redbook CD and that the music industry will find a way to market higher resolution sound files so that we can finally move to a digital format worthy of our efforts.
trelja
3,223 posts
 
Blackstonejd, while we do not agree on the source being the most important link in the audio chain, I take my hat off to your post!

I feel your point that Redbook CD is not an inherently good format for the audiophile from a sonic perspective is incredibly cogent. Apart from no more than a very small handful of players, we simply do not get close to superior formats such as vinyl, SACD, etc.
blackstonejd
153 posts
 
Let me rephrase. It probably is not accurate to say that the source (the recording being reproduced and the format in which it is fixed) is the most important component in the audio chain because a system can only be as good as its weakest link. That is not really what I meant. What I should have said is that in almost all digital audiophile systems the CD format is itself the weakest link in the audio chain.

"Garbage in = garbage out" is a well accepted guiding audiophile principle. I think a corollary of "garbage in = garbage out" is that if you are feeding your system with an insufficient digital format, you are ALWAYS going to get insufficient results out of your system at some level.

This is why so many digital audiophiles, I think, get an initial thrill from a new component but ultimately are not satisfied. A new pre-amplifier and amplifier can be a profound upgrade, but as a matter of logic, you can only be hearing more of the 16-bit PCM sampled at 44,100 Hz (1411.2 kbit/s) 1411.2 kbit/s CD that you are feeding those components, or you are coloring the sound in some way that sounds better to you. So you make your upgrade and are impressed with the results in the short term but over the long term you probably won't be satisfied because the underlying problem is still there. Your source material is not nearly as good as what the artist and the engineers recording the artist intended you to hear because there is information missing. Digital audiophiles understand this subconsciously and it drives them crazy.

Just when you think you've remedied one CD insufficiency, another pops up like a game of whack-a-mole. This is why end-game manufacturers like dCS and Esoteric are building DSD upsampling into their CD transports and developing upsampling devices for music servers. (See the new Scarlatti Upsampler or Paganini system) These systems interpolate high resolution audio from a standard CD and thus at least partially remedy the problem.

Using the Purcell upsampler, I am sometimes shocked by which CDs suddenly become audiophile grade material. Rock recordings I always thought were mediocre suddenly become stunning. Apparently, the recording engineers got it right--it is the CD format that was screwing it up. It isn't true for all of my CDs but it is true for a vast majority of them.

If we had more players using that sort of technology, or a viable high resolution replacement for CD, audiophiles could at least start with a source that is not inherently flawed. The hobby would be more about enhancing the source than remedying or masking it and audiophiles would probably enjoy themselves more in between each upgrade. As it stands, we are basically just trying to hear more of something that is not good to begin with.
tonywinsc
583 posts
 
Firstly, sounds like you just haven't found the right Redbook CD player.

Second, you seem to contradict yourself. CD's have a finite amount of information. An upsampler cannot add information- it's just another form of digital filtering- ie. coloration as you talked about.
blackstonejd
153 posts
 
First, I am not contradicting myself. YOU are making an assumption about upsampling. An upsampler interpolates information from the CD. It is not "coloration" when the end product sounds more like the original master tape.

Second, I have extensive experience with Redbook transports and DACs.
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