How do we remember 1970s amplifiers?


I would be curious to hear some of the memories and impressions associated with the following short list of 1970s amplifiers:

- McIntosh "first generation" SS amps, MC2105, MC2505, MC2300, MC250, MC2100
- Dynaco Stereo 400 and Stereo 120
- Phase Linear 400 and 700
- Bang & Olufsen "slide rule" receivers (i.e. especially blackface Beomaster 4000)
- Original Ampzilla (not Son of Ampzilla)

I've chosen this list mainly because they cover a wide range of approaches to solving the issues of early semiconductor technology, and they were all pretty mainstream products in the U.S. I'm excluding the Japanese receivers/amps not out of predjudice; it's simply that the circuit designs varied quite a bit with each model, and thus harder to broadly classify their characteristics.

I'm interested in impressions of both sonic and non-sonic attributes, and a preferred ranking of the above, if you like.
kirkus
I loved my Kenwood...KA-7100 of the late '70s.

Good with my 12" 3-way JBL 4311 clones from RSL....(SoCal Boutique brand) and later with my first panels...some MG-1s.
Since I was poor, I did a snip/snip....solder/solder and attached cables with RCA male ends and used just the preamp for another couple years with my first bit of hi-power amp, my old Carver Cube. Worked fine as a preamp.....

I still know where the amp is. I gave it away to someone who NEVER used it. I'm going to ask for it back. If they haven't used it in 20+ years, it'll never get used. Maybe a recap of the PS would be in order before pluggin it in?
Some of those old designs were pretty good and while the art has moved forward on a lot of amp features (protection, thermal and short monitoring, metering) sound was quite good in many of them. Just listening to an old mac amp is a good example of this. That Audio Research (tube) amp line in the late 70's was darn good. Dynaco's too.

I think long term amps will mean less to the market as active speakers become more and more important over the next years. Older preamps will likely gain in importance-for the front end will be ever more obvious.

Brad

Eldartford brings up an interesting subject in that many of the amplifiers with more humble aspirations in the 1970s were capacitor-coupled . . . Johnnyb53 mentioned that his Altec integrated stereo had issues with reduced power output at 20Hz, which is a strong indicaion that it had an output capacitor. Most self-respecting "high-end" amplifiers, on the other hand, were DC coupled, possibly taking this to an extreme in the Kenwood L-07 that actually passes DC, and has DC gain.

Crown was proud of this in the late-1960s; I think that the DC-300 got its moniker because it was "DC Coupled". And nowadays, this power-supply configuration is standard, and an output capacitor is an anachronism . . . ah, progress. But wait a minute . . . a quick re-examination of the current path in a typical "DC coupled" power amplifier (including even the L-07M), and the speaker is still coupled via capacitors - it's just that now they've moved from the positive side of the speaker terminal to the negative, and we call them "power supply filter capacitors". If their only purpose was to smooth ripple, there could be just one tied between the + and - rails . . . but then there'd be no way to return the loudspeaker current to the supply. The power-transformer's center tap does this in the case of faults and on startup (and for extreme subsonic noise/content on the L-07M), but most power amps can in fact purr along nicely with this disconnected, and no DC ground for the power supply at all.

It's true that the "DC coupled" topology doesn't (or at least shouldn't) suffer from nonlinearities associated with the coupling/supply capacitors, the reason is that they are effectively inside the feedback loop, whereas in the "Capacitor coupled" topology they typically aren't. In the "DC coupled" scenario, there's still usually an electrolytic grounding the feedback loop (keeping DC gain to unity), and this can be a measureable source of distortion.

So that leaves me wondering a bit why it was cheaper to build a capacitor-coupled amp in the 1970s? The extra cost of front-end transistors is tiny. You still need two big electrolytics, or three for a stereo amp, so it's actually more expensive in that regard. There is a bit of savings in the lack of an output relay and protection circuit, but that doesn't seem like enough to offset the extra big capacitor.

This leads me to the conclusion that the real big chunk of cost was the talent to design an input stage with good offset characteristics, and perhaps the production technician to adjust the offset on every single amplifier, making up for the inconsistency in the semiconductors of the era. With an output capacitor, the whole thing is much more tolerant of both substandard parts and design mistakes. Now that transistor quality has improved dramatically, and there are plenty of existing designs to plagarize . . . those costs are much less significant for inexpensive systems, and capacitor-coupling has fallen by the wayside.
Some of those old designs were pretty good and while the art has moved forward on a lot of amp features (protection, thermal and short monitoring, metering) sound was quite good in many of them.
Indeed it was . . . and the idea of swapping in fancier parts to "improve" them to today's standards has some appeal. There's of course usually plenty of room for sonic improvement by simply correcting the ravages of 30-40 years of age, and technology and manufacturing of all electronic parts has moved forward innumerably in the past few decades. But the parts themselves are certainly NOT the real story, and the real improvement to be have comes from applying a modern design perspective to the older circuits, and making major or minor tweaks as needed. Some of them end up being pretty amazing just as they are, and others . . . well there simply aren't enough Black Gates and teflon caps in the world to help.
It was 1978, (in Sweden) and I just got my first job cooking in a restaurant.
No debt, and nothing to spend my cash on "Forced me" to check out the stereo store in the neighborhood. Wow I loved it, the smell of warm amps and the big
VU-meters pulled me in to it's warm embrace. I think I spent more time in the store then the owner for the next six months....LOL
One day the owner come up to me and said, why don't you buy a system and you can enjoy some tunes at home. I walked out with Magneplanar Tympani 1D's,
two Sansui BA3000 amps and matching pre-amp, and the turntable was the
Micro Seiki DDX1000 with two tonearms.
I still remember how fab that system sounded, and I just bought the DDX1000 a month or so ago to revisit my youth. If I can only find two Sansui
BA3000 in mint condition I'll be in heaven :-)

Peter
Peter53, will finding those old amps not just be an attempt at capturing lost youth?

Nostalgia for any of the gear that gave us our first glimpse at what was really hidden in the grooves I think is more like it.

Because a certain speaker or amp was a milestone,somehow some folks think it still will be today.

I have friend who has gone that route, thinking the best was all behind him.

He set out on a journey to replace all his newer gear with gear that he used to own.
Hoping to find audio nirvana once again.

All he found were the reasons why he let that gear go many years ago.