Continuation of my Thread on VPI, Basis, Origin...

Hi Rwd. About the low level rumble on that record, there is some possiblility that it is the record that is the problem. If the rumble does not occur on other records, I wouldn't worry about it.

Regarding upgrades, the order of upgrading in analog systems is first the TT, then arm, then cartridge. Upgrading the TT will yield more sonic improvements, than upgrading the arm or cart. Also upgrading the arm will yield better sound than upgrading the cartridge. However, in your case, where you seem to have a particular difficulty with your arm/cart matchup, then this needs to be addressed.

Of course, personal opinions on which TT to consider, are subjective. My personal feeling on moving to the Basis 2500, is that it is a small move. It may be a little better than the Aries, but not alot(IMO). If you want to move up from the Aries, you are going to have to make a fairly major step, because you are getting into the area where small improvements start costing alot of money. A Verdier La Platine, or a TNT Mk V, or another turntable in that kind of range will be required to get significant improvements. This is not to say that the Basis or others wouldn't help, but the change won't be overwhelming(IMO).

Of course, and you knew this was coming, if you were to get a Teres Model 255 Signature in Cocobolo for about $2800, you would be way up there in the high end performance levels, for not alot of money. A major step up from the Aries, for about the same cost of the new Aries.

With a upgrade of the TT like this, all the changes in arm and cartridge will sound all the better, because the TT will give a better foundation for them to work with.

If you can't make the leap of faith to go with the un-auditionable Teres, then you are relegated to the major brands that we are all aware of. This is fine, except you have to pay alot more to get a similar performance level to the Teres.

If you email Chris at Teres, and tell him you are considering a 255, he may send you one to try out. You won't be sending it back once you hear it. Tell him you need the armboard cut for a Graham 2.2.

Phil Sieg, a reviewer for Listener magazine, who owns a Platine Verdier, posted this on Bottlehead Forum April 27,2002 after he reviewed the Teres and other offshoots from the Teres project.

"I will say this. If your TT budget will stand $3K (w/o arm & cart), you can make your final TT purchase. Certain manufacturers of 5-figure American tables should be very, very scared." Phil Sieg, Listener Magazine

So I am not alone in my opinions of this table.

I like Phil. I think that he is not only a good writer, but i also think that he knows his stuff. If he had that to say about the Teres, i would not doubt that it is a force to be reckoned with. Sean
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I can not offer you any educated or experienced advice concerning the above choices, but the thing about your question that leaps out at me is, you don't even say exactly what it is about your current set-up you are not happy with. It does seem unlikely to me though, that between a modern arm such as the 10.5, and two such different and popular modern MC cart's as the Lyra and the B-M, that they would all be poor matches. Considering that the Aries is a well-regarded but unsuspended design, what is it supported by? Has everything been professionally set up, or set up knowledgably by yourself using the aid of precision guages? What are your phonostage and phono cable situations? I haven't seen your other thread, but it seems to me this one lacks sufficient information to draw conclusions based upon.

Hi Zaikesman...my Aries was set up by a fairly knowledgeable person. The arm 10.5 cartridges as well. My concern is the arm....the 10.5. You see, I had tried the HR test record for anti-skate and the arm faired poorly....Many people have advise against the arm because of the unique anti-skate system (twisting the arm cable).
I listen to vinyl only and so my concern. As TWL said, this is a system and I believe I went too quickly and choose good gear but not matched good gear. So here I am.....

Have no fear, RWD. This is nothing that hasn't happened to a million people before you. It's just that alot of things change when you decide to start using lower compliance cartidges.Medium and higher compliance cartridges will get along with just about anything these days, so long as you don't try to mount them on a brick. When you get to the lower compliance stuff, all-of-a-sudden, things are a whole lot different. One of the main reasons for this, is that there has been a trend for years now, towards lighter arms and unipivots, for better vertical tracking performance. But this is the worst thing to have when you are using a low compliance cartridge. So it radically narrows the field, in terms of the arms you can use. It is my opinion, that eventually the "audiophile with an ear" will discover that the best of the MC carts are low compliance. When that happens, the whole world is upside down. Most of the arms don't work anymore. Very great care is required, in your selection of arms and carts, because of the high energy that is transferred back into the arm by these cartridges. Any weakness in this area, will immediatly be displayed to you. FWIW, the Lyra website specifically states that a gimbal bearing type arm should be used on all their cartridges. Most unipivots are immediatly obsolete for this type of cartridge, although the Graham does have a record of good performance with lower compliance. The outrigger weights are the "saving grace" of this design. I can't think of any other unipivot that will suffice with the low compliance stuff. And even with the outriggers, it still doesn't have the bass response of gimbal arms like SME V or Origin Live. Also, gimbal bearing arms are subjected to the rigors of low compliance, by a potential of "bearing chatter" if the bearings are not of the highest quality and precise adjustment. And stiff, anti-resonant arm tubes are also required. With low compliance you are putting the arm to it's maximum stress test, and anything that is not superior will not perform well. But, when you have a sufficient arm design, the low compliance cartridges will give sound quality that is quite unlike everything else. That is why Koetsu, Shelter, Supex, Lyra, Denon, and the like, have the sound and reputation that they do. These are not made low compliance simply to make the arm have a hard time. They are made low compliance to sound better. The makers would not make them like this is if it wasn't necessary for the sonic end-result.

The added weight, stiffness and bearing configuration that makes an arm suitable for these cartridges, is not necessarily ideal for the other higher compliance type of cartridges that are so prevalent. So arm makers are making light arms to suit the majority of carts, which are medium to high compliance. You need to zero-in on the arms which are correctly suited to the type of cartridge you plan to use. If you plan on Lyra, Koetsu, Shelter, Denon, or "classic" type MC designs, then you need to get an arm that will suit them. If you plan to go with Benz, Clearaudio, Dynavector, Grado, VDH, and the like, then you can use most any of the better available arms.

I am telling you this now, so that you will know what you need to know before you spend any more money. You have found out what can happen, and now is the time to re-assess, and make a well thought out decision about the future of your analog rig. You must know the direction you want to go, before you choose a road. There are known guidelines that have existed for the last 25 years or more about how to go about this process. I am trying to show you some of them.