Center speaker OR Full range as Center speaker?

Thanks Kal. I agree with your post entirely. For multi-channel audio, fullrange is obvious and also assume dipole/bipole is out as well in that instance for surrounds.

WE have been so focused on left and right channels for so many decades and its gotten to where there is some really nice stuff out there at many price points. It really isn't suprising that quality enginerring for a center channel speaker simply lags in the majority of cases in the consumer market.

Hi all,

Thank you very much for your responses. I really enjoy reading all these interesting responses. My current HT setup is a 5.2, and I do have a dedicated center. Similar to the B&W wall series, my full range speakers are the AR Phantom 8.3 series. They are ~ 4" thick, 28" long, 12" wide. Drivers are 1" titanium tweeter, 2" magalloy mid, 8" Illusion Audio TM carbon woofer. FR 45Hz-20kHz, 89dB sensitive, 50-250W power handling.

At this time, all full range speakers are mounted vertically on the wall. If I mount another full range as the center, it has to be mounted horizontally for the WAF. What this means to me is that midrange will be center while the woofer will be to the left as the tweeter is to the right, or vice versa. I listen to DVD-A & concert DVD in DTS. I am wondering if mounting the full range horizontally will have any sonically adverse affect?

How do you guys do it? I have a 42" plasma. Would you please advise me on what to do, i.e. to use the full-range center or dedicated center? Thank you all for shedding some lights on me.

My experience has been that, ideally, 3 matching across the front is best. That however needs to be quantified in the context of the system/room/setup. Basically, a lot of full range speakers, or mini's for that matter, aren't really all that capable of producing solid, dynamic, coherent, and focused sound, period!...inlarge, they make ineffective movie speakers IMO. And I've sold alot of audoiphile speakers over the years.
There is something to be said for a good speaker for movies vs. just for music. Dual midrange/bass woofers, or others.
Having reinforced midrange, bass and treble drivers, either using horns, or dual/multiple mid/bass drivers, multiple tweeters, large pannels, and/or high efficiency designs in general(like active's, horns, multiple driver array's, etc) often make for a more solid home theater speaker. This is especially true in the critical center channel, where a lot of action is mixed!
Basically, there are a number of designs that are just to week, laid back, uninvolving, "open", and polite sounding do to true justice to what I call "the hard stuff"!
But, there are considerations.
If you have to use a traditional designed stereo speaker for HT dubties, they most always work much better not only crossed over as "small", but used in a smaller setting, or where you sit acoustically "closer" to the speakers...thus you hear more dirrect sound vs. reflected sound from the room boundaries. This tends to "reinforce" the sound from the speakers more for your ears.
Still, all things equal, I'd say it depends greatly on the design of the speakers.
Also, since most typical full range consumer home audio speakers are passive, and low on efficiency/sensitivity, it often makes for better control and powerhandling when you cross over the speakers as "small", and dictate the more demanding dynamic bass info for an "active" speaker, like a powered subwoofer.
Now I have head some full rangers that do pretty darn well as "full range", and as center channels. Big Dunlavy's, Avantgard horns, PSB Stratus Gold's, Infinity Prelude MTS's,NHT VT3's(powered subs) and other powered models, maybe a wilson WATT PUPPY, and other larger, higher efficiency designs.
Ok, this is all my experience, and you can really do what you want. I just think some designs don't do it so well.

I use a dedicated center for HT. It is placed on a non-enclosed shelf with tweeter near the level and in plane with the tweeters on my mains. There are also stands for the center alone as an alternative.

I use an entirely different rig and room for 2 channel audio. HT mixes I found required different positioning than 2 channel audio. Also signal processing for HT by a Denon is needed for my HT ( or any A/V receiever- I just use Denon). My audio rig is driven by a dedicated class A amp. Neither could do the others job very well.

For the HT- I use two subs, in the front corners facing each other behind and to the side of the mains. The mains and center use identical drivers, both tweeters and woofers. Extension is to 45 HZ which I dont consider full range. Subs flat to 25hz, usable to 24. They are sealed.
Surrounds use same tweeter as the rest, but a smaller woofer.

I do not listen to much multi-channel music. The DVD-As I do have I listen to the DTS track instead.

Lej1447,

I guess it’s time to dispute Cinematic_Systems and explain to you what I meant. I’m 51 and have played music since grade school, so I’m biased towards quality. It has nothing to do with being negative, and certainly nothing to do with being limited in experience or expectations.

Nine or ten years ago I got into HT in a big way and it sounded pretty darn good:

Processor: Lexicon CP-1.
Left Front: Definitive Technology BP-20 driven by an Adcom GFA-555 bridged mono.
Right Front: Definitive Technology BP-20 driven by an Adcom GFA-555 bridged mono.
Center: Two Definitive Technology BP-10’s, one on each side of the TV, driven by an Adcom GFA-555.
Rear: Definitive Technology BP-10’s driven by an Adcom GFA-545.
Subs: Snell subs driven by an Adcom GFA-555.

Then I walked into a stereo store where they had set up a hi-end Krell stereo system running Dunlavy SC-IV’s. The singer sounded like he was sitting on a stool in front of me with his guitar singing to me. I traded and sold everything and bought that system. I don’t know how many times someone would ask me where my center channel was. I’d tell them that I didn’t have one, and inevitably they’d get up and look around and behind the screen for the center channel speaker, because they “knew” that it just had to be there because of the way the soundstage was.

It boils down to “Quality” over “Quantity”. I realized that for myself and most people, it’s easier to come up with the money for a piece or two here or there. But if someone was in the position in the beginning to lay down the cash for a really good stereo, they’d be surprised with what they’d have.

I realize the young kids in their cars with the “boom, boom, boom” rattling everything around them think they’ve got it, but if they were musicians I think they’d realize that had noise rather than music where you can point to the performers layered in a soundstage from left to right and from front to back. The same goes for really enjoying a movie.

Chuck