about to jump into the power cord foray

Blindjim, yeah, I'm not normally so intense. That was debate and rhetoric. I do enjoy rhetoric and debate (possibly subsumed under the category of seriosity), upon occasion.

I guess I'm intense in arguing for the merits of cables; it seems to me over the years that of all components they get the shaft the most. Having denied their differences for years, now that I'm working with them on a daily basis and hear the changes constantly, I'm more aggressive about defending what I'm experiencing. Similar to a smoker who quits and is intense about how harmful it is.

I try to distinguish between a good argument/debate and a fight. Rhetoric and persuasive talk is fine, but personal name calling is not good. I don't want fights; they're no fun. Most of the time I try to be relaxed, like a fine audio system. :)

Iggyminn, I would try used power cords one at a time, starting from power amp first. You may want to research the characteristics of various power cords and then determine what to get next based on the sonic signature of your system and what you want to achieve next. Power cords are not the solution for all, but they do make significant differences from my experiences.

It is laughable to me that someone with a BSEE degree and yet claims that he/she knows everything about science. Go get a couple advanced degrees in EE and then you will look at every theory you know with a different look. The theory you studied is often based on a lot of assumptions, which may or may not be true in the real world.

"SKEPTICS HAVE INCREDIBLE FAITH IN THEIR DOUBT".
Actually, skeptics have no use for the word "faith"; true skeptics simply say that they wont blindly believe anything without some type of unbiased and controlled test or demonstration, which doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
It's also not up to a skeptic to prove someone else's statement or assertion is true/false; that is the responsibility of the person making the claim, and that's where this cable argument often falls down because:

1. Several 'skeptics' (including the infamous James Randi) have for years offered million dollar rewards for any audiophile who can correctly identify different audio cables in a double blind test, yet no-one has even taken up the challenge, let alone got it right, and

2. Many fence-sitters like me simply don't have as much money and spare time as certain people above, who suggest we're 'cheap' for not doing our own tests on multiple PC's and IC's. We shouldn't have to do the tests, the claimants should. Us "cheapskates" must rely on published reviews and tests of hifi gear to point us in the right direction, but when the prices of some of these cables can cost more than many components, I don't think it's unreasonable to want a little more than a string of glowing adjectives, that can't be backed up with any demonstrative data or science.

And by the way, using the "herbs to treat disease" analogy is actually a counter argument; for every witchcraft type remedy that science has proven works, there must be hundreds that were just true hocus pocus (like sacrifices to the gods, crystal healing, pointing the bone etc), my point being that in general life it's often a very low percentage of claims that turn out to be true, especially when there's a sale behind it all.

Just my 2c worth!

Carl, semantics doesn't get you out of the problem; faith/belief, confidence, whatever you want to label it. I called the question on the topic of the "confidence" of the skeptic that all cables sound the same. So, I'm the skeptic's skeptic (in other words, I'm not going to blindly believe everything that is proffered as "fact" by those proclaiming there's no difference). I placed the burden on you and anyone else to demonstrate that an electron has a sound that is a constant. No reports? No measurements? Then, the issue is not air tight, is it? Then, pronouncements that cables all sound the same are unsubstantiated, but rather are subjective opinions.

As to point #1, I assumed the topic of blind testing would arise, and it doesn't hurt my argument in the least. I assert that blind testing works. I also assert that cables have distinct sounds to them which are easily ascertainable. Both are true. However, the human is notoriously incapable of the precise recall necessary in a DBT to successfully isolate and match specific sounds with a low margin of error. I believe Randi knows this and uses this to his advantage. The fact that we humans are far less precise in matching sounds (There are plenty of studies showing our inconsistent recall visually, so why should it be different with hearing?)has no impact on the question of whether cables sound differently from each other. So, I hold that both are true: Cables sound distinct, and people are poor at DBT. In other words, the methodology is inappropriate to the task. This is yet another reason why examining sets of cables is far superior to individual cables used in a DBT, as the cumulative effect of a collection of cables is far easier to hear - in fact, so easy that no blind testing is necessary.

As to point #2, I'm not so rich, but in this instance I already have put my money where my mouth is. I have laid out the bucks to perform the comparisons with sets of cables prior to reviewing. I continue to compare sets of cables as a reviewer. To date I don't recall (ha, get it?) any set of cables which was not easily/clearly distinguished from another set. (This is assuming an approx. $30K+ system, as this IS a factor in assessment!) In some cases the distinctions are alarming, every bit as significant as box component changes.
I'm sure you find that hard to believe, or shall I say, have confidence in, or have reason not to doubt...? :)

So, now I ask you: What does the price have to do with legitimate distinction in sound? You say, "...but when the prices of some of these cables can cost more than many components, I don't think it's unreasonable to want a little more than a string of glowing adjectives." I take that to mean that when someone might describe a difference between economical cables, you would be more inclined to believe them, but if the price is high your suspicions are aroused. So, then, it's the price that triggers your suspicion, disbelief? You don't trust reviewers or individuals who have tested these things with all manner/prices of cables? The higher the price, the higher the doubt? So, a cable which costs more is more suspect in terms of performance because of its price. Hmm... Sure, the wallet speaks to us, but we should acknowledge the bias, that we tend to disbelieve the report merely because of the price of the product. So, the claimants do the tests, but they are not believed when the price reaches X dollars... I'm glad I discovered this information about cables on my own dime; I can say that I formed my opinions on this topic apart from reviewing. No chance for anyone to suggest ulterior motives. I paid for the information; consider yourself benefitted, as though I did a self-funded public study. If you don't want the benefit of the information, so be it. Some will take it and find out I'm right.

Many (if not most) reviewers acknowledge that occasionally there are cables which are true bargains (Stereophile in its 2008 Recommended Components issue, April, had alongside pricey cables one "DNM Stereo Solid Core Precision" - at $12/ft/pr). Surprising? Only mildly, as there will be a spread of performance from wires ranging the cost spectrum. Occasionally a 'freak' cable is found which does perform at an incredibly high level. But it is sheer nonsense to suggest that typically bargain/run of the mill cables perform the same as cables that are designed to perform better. Now, if only someone could prove that electrons all sound the same... Again, I guess these engineers, designers know less than the average Joe. I guess they're all hucksters and rip off artists, without any sincerity built into their designs. Especially, when the price reaches X dollars!

BTW, I have developed my own "Law of Efficacy" to guard against insignificant distinctions in cables. I assert that the difference in sound must be immediate, clear, repeatable. One should not have to question if things are different, it should be obvious that its different, and immediately so. It should also be demonstrable to others, whether audiophiles or the uninitiated. If one has to strain or wonder if it's different, then it's not different for practical purposes.

Carl, do you mind sharing what components, cables and speakers you're running? Why not post your system; pics are unnecessary.

Wishful thinking does not make cables sound the same.

There are plenty of inexpensive alternatives in cabling people can acquire. If they will or not try them in their own system hangs in the balance. A still more difficult hurdle is acquiring ALL likewise cabling, I believe.

Front to back, ‘same same’ wiring isn’t something I see in the majority of systems. However more synergistic is that approach. Just as any number of systems congregate various components, so too is the amassed wiring fueling it. Circumstantial purchases and subjective assignments conjure up a pot we sound chefs believe we can cook to a quite satisfactory bill of fare.

The system’s cabling can be both it’s limiting, and enhancing factors.

The question in all of this is usually, Which or What goes with this or that? I’ve asked that same self serving question many times. For me it’s driven by economics. Well, that, and impatience. Now and then by ignorance too.

However I think in more general terms a lot of the time too these days. To date I’ve found no particular rhyme or reason mandate which is always applicable aside from this: Either try something else or be satisfied with what one has in house. AND “Everything makes a difference… to some degree, more or less”.

I own a fairly ambiguous slice of wires. Ranging from well under $100 to well over $1500. Each has a purpose and it’s own qualities. Were my curiosity and patience levels commensurate with one another, and the funding available, I’d try a lot more cabling than I have so far.

Further hamstringing me is the sheer numbers of wires that present themselves to the end user for trial or comparison. I have noted an inherent synergy via the use of all the same brand cabling in the singular event I was allowed a couple years ago. Yet even then the types or models of the cabling differed some. The results were unexpectedly rewarding. Though improvements were surely evident, and system performance was improved a good deal, it wasn’t exactly what I was looking for in the end. Neither could I justify the overall expense. So I kept those which gave me what I wanted and moved on to find the remaining and still, “missing links”. I’ve managed to find them sometimes on purpose, other times coincidentally.

I don’t feel it really matters what the particular wire actually costs, as that will always be a relative concern, I believe it does matter about the fit itself, and the desired goals. There’s the rub indeed. The goal itself. Realistic ones are attained without much issue. Unrealistic ones might not be found out at all. Honesty is one of the keys. Experience, is another. Ego for me also plays a formidable part… it’s the dog that is always barking at my heels. Feduciary means usually keeps my Ego to just an annoying murmur.

I mean to take no one to task for their belief system. Only to share my own experiences and give some voice to the notion of gaining such experiences is the only true and sure way an answer will become a reality.

I simply maintain anyone whose mindset says a thing is this or that without some due course of trial and effort, is not on the beam, as it were, and has become mired in in a myopic state of affairs.

With the little to no cost in home trials and the low cost option of the A’gone “buy and try” shuffle, it’s just to easy a thing to do and verify personally, that I’m concerned with those who say “No” and wonder why it’s not, “Try…. ”.