Skeletal vs Plinth style turntables


I am pondering a new plinth design and am considering the virtues of making a skeletal or closed plinth design. The motor unit is direct drive. I know that as a direct drive it inherently has very low vibration as opposed to an idler deck (please do not outcry Garrard and Lenco onwners coz I have one of those too) but simple facts are facts belt drive motors spin at 250rpm, Lencos around 1500 rpm, DD 33 or 45 rpm. That being the case that must surely be a factor in this issue. What are your thoughts. BTW I like closed designs as they prevent the gathering of dust.
parrotbee
02-12-15: Basephysics
A moving armpod will be displayed by the Timeline on a belt-drive turntable and idler both without servo control.

Henry.... time to wake up now. We need your help. We need you to pull a volunteer from your Victor "Armpod" team, and have him join forces with your Raven "tonearm fixed to the turntable" team. If he resists, tell him its in the name of Copernican good and the switch will be only temporary - maybe. Well "maybe" leave the "maybe" part out when talking to him. :^)

Basephysics - that's quite the moniker. I'm intrigued again, as I was with Parrottbee our OP(Original Poster). Is physics your line of work, hobby interest area ?

Now Henry can confirm better, but if I recall he said that the timeline on the Raven turntable moved; but that it moved slowly and consistently. This implied that his turntable although not right at 33.3, maybe a little above (line going --->) this way or below line going (<-----) this way, the speed was still stable. So for purposes of enjoying records - just fine. Is that right Henry or am I blowing smoke out my ears ? Alas I don't own the thing. Also fwiw - based on Richard Krebs train calculations I would be very surprised if any movement can be observed from what is a "normal" situation for that turntable setup with its fixed tonerarm.

So I guess it depends on whether Henry is game to play for us to find out ?

On a personal note very much looking forward to Timeltel (Professor's) next thread synopsis :^)

Cheers
Shifting away from the pod part of this thread, I am wondering whether to put together a panzerholz (clearaudio style) sandwich, or even try a different sandwich such as using acrylic instead? What say you?
Parrotbee, That's a rather subjective decision. You'd have to make two plinths, one with Panzerholz and one with acrylic and then do your own listening tests. However, if you're talking about all-acrylic vs all Panzerholz (no mixing of disparate materials), I personally would choose Panzerholz or some other hard wood. Acrylic in layers with other materials can be used to effect constrained layer damping, nicely.

Basephysics, Perhaps you have some deeper understanding of how the Timeline works. I am not an owner of one, but I have borrowed one and long ago returned it to its owner. As I understand it, the Timeline is an idiot. It just flashes its laser(s) at a regular pre-determined interval such that if the platter is rotating precisely at 33.333... rpm, the laser "spot" on a nearby flat surface will not appear to move. In other words, the laser does not "sense" movement per se, it just flashes at a regular interval. If I am incorrect, please educate me. Now, if my understanding of the Timeline is NOT incorrect, then will you or someone please tell me how the Timeline can show us anything but the fact that the platter is or is not rotating at correct speed? If it only senses correct speed, how would it also be telling us about arm pod "movement", if such were happening? Let's say you put your finger against the side of the spinning platter, adding drag, and let's say that the Timeline continues to tell you that the speed is exactly correct. Does that mean you are not touching the platter, despite what your eyes and your senses tell you? "Arm pod drag" is no different from that.

I should add here that I do NOT think that the very large, well constructed, and well thought out arm pods used by most of the arm pod aficionados is actually moving. Henry, for one, made some beautiful constructions that are very massive, and his shelf is not a sheet of ice in fact. This has devolved into an argument about hypotheses.

As to "basic physics", Basephysics, you must be familiar with Newton's Third Law of Motion: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. We all seem to accept the notion of "stylus drag". This is due to friction between the stylus tip and the vinyl groove. Correct? If stylus drag is real, then it stands to reason that the groove is also exerting an opposite force on the stylus tip which is in effect pulling on the tonearm. If the tonearm is mounted on an outboard free-standing arm pod, then the arm pod is subject to the theoretical possibility that it could be dragged by this force. (Again, I emphasize that I do NOT think this is a real world issue for a well built arm pod, until proven otherwise.) But in theory the arm pod might move. If this additional drag on the platter were to be overcome by the motor and servo so as to maintain exact speed, in spite even of the fact that the arm pod may be moving, then the Timeline would be oblivious to the whole thing. That's my point. The Timeline tells us nothing, zero, zilch about whether the arm pod moves or does not move, due to arm pod drag. The Timeline might be affected or might not be. It depends as always upon the tt motor and servo mechanism or other elements of the drive system.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Wide awake now Chris....👀
Now Henry can confirm better, but if I recall he said that the timeline on the Raven turntable moved; but that it moved slowly and consistently. This implied that his turntable although not right at 33.3, maybe a little above (line going --->) this way or below line going (<-----) this way, the speed was still stable. So for purposes of enjoying records - just fine. Is that right Henry or am I blowing smoke out my ears ?
No smoke blowing here Chris....you got it..👍
In fact the drift to the left (indicating slightly less than 33.33rpm), whilst registering on the Timeline...produced this on the Feikert Platter Speed App.
Compare that to the VPI Direct and you can see that the Raven measures better than the VPI Direct on the Feikert App whilst the Timeline shows its slight inaccuracy.

Not quite sure what you're asking me for....❓
Before Basephysic's succinct Post...I had contemplated filming the Timeline on the Raven whilst I slowly pivoted one of the tonearm boards to demonstrate the laws of physics...but as can still be seen.....there are those who will develop their own 'physics' to explain away any evidence which collides with their views of the physical world..😥

Life is just too short...😎
Henry, Life is short indeed, and you're too smug to learn anything new. Instead of the snide remarks, I beg you to think about what you're saying when you say that the Timeline can show you whether your arm pod is moving or not moving. That's the only question we're debating, and I've spent enough effort to show you why it cannot. It can only show you whether your tt is running at correct speed (within its own limits to do that), or not running at correct speed. It cannot show the cause, in either case. But if you disagree, and you're really sure I am wrong, perhaps you can launch a logical response in lieu of sarcasm. I invite you, in other words, to tell me WHY I am wrong.