Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II


“For those who want the moon but can't afford it or those who can afford it but like to have fun and work with their hands, I'm willing to give out a recipe for a true high-end 'table which is easy to do, and fun to make as sky's the limit on design/creativity! The cost of materials, including 'table, is roughly $200 (depending, more or less), and add to that a Rega tonearm. The results are astonishing. I'll even tell/show you how to make chipboard look like marble and fool and impress all your friends. If there's interest I'll get on with this project, if not, I'll just continue making them in my basement. The next one I make will have a Corian top and have a zebra stripe pattern! Fun! Any takers?”

The Lead in “Da Thread” as posted by Johnnantais - 2-01-04

Let the saga continue. Sail on, oh ships of Lenco!
mario_b
Hi Bob, actually, my system is a mish-mash of mostly vintage components as, like Jloveys, I tend to spend my money on the source: record players (Lencos, Garrards, Technics SP10, SP25, Sony 2250, etc.), tonearms (JMW 10.5i, RS Labs RS-A1, Rega RB-300, various vintage tonearms) and cartridges (Oracle Thalia/Benz Ebony H; Dynavector Karat Ruby, Decca Super Gold, Grado Statement Master, AKG P8ES, Empire P10E, etc.).

So, first of all, I get to hear my Lencos in various state-of-the-art systems quite often, and so rely on my "true" findings on these demonstrations.

As well, I tend to change components in and out quite a lot, in search of special synergies which lead to astounding PRaT and gestalt (nothing less will do) and also to hear various aspects of the experiments with record players I am conducting. But, I'll list my current reference components. For preamplifiers I currently favour a variety of vintage CJ preamps, which I found, after comparisons, to be sonically superior (especially the phono stages) to many current favourite phono stages (including the EAR 834P, sorry chaps). These include the CJ PV-1 (dead quiet with a stunningly accurate phono stage, and line stage), the CJ PV-7 (gorgeous romantic BIG and intimate sound I never tire of), and the CJ PV-8, which has monstrous gain (and so can take low-output MCs straight in), terrific musical excitement and superb bass. For pure pleasure, however, I prefer the ASL AQ 2006 DT, which faithfully communicates the incredible Lenco/Idler way with both gestalt and timing/PRaT better than anything I've ever heard (and so which is, for this specific application, my test equipment). But it's shortfalls in both bass and some detail prompt me to test with the others. Or the vintage Sony stuff, being the superb 2000F, which has been declared by some superior to the latest run of ARC equipment. But, if I say this out loud, then there are those who will use this to discredit my record player findings, so please, hush ;-).

For amps, I truly have two reference pieces: one rebuilt-to-modern Leak Stereo 20, with all modern top-of-the-line resistors and so forth, a wonder; and a 100-watt SS push-pull Class AB amp a country gentleman built just for me, which so far has wiped the floor with every bit of kit to come my way. I don't know how he did it, but it sounds much like an SET - with an SET's crystal clear delivery, utter lack of grain and purity of tone - but with limitless dynamics. Another wonder. And, again, I love the sound of various vintage Sony amps, being two mostly, the 3130F, and the 3140. They both beat the crap out of most modern amps in the areas of dynamics and rhythm/timing/PRaT. Seems timing is fast becoming a fogotten art. Which is one reason I push the Lenco/Idlers so much.

For speakers, if I want full-range, then I hook up my big Klipsch Cornwalls, which are superb in every aspect, but they scare even me (especially with an idler behind them), so for the moment they are downstairs. My current reference are the Technics SB-4s, which are three-way flat-diaphragm metal honeycomb driver speakers, high sensitivity, and utterly transparent. No audiophile cred, but Hi Fi Answers, back in the day, declared this Technics technology revolutionary and the wave of the future, they are incredible, that rare beast often discussed but never found: a dynamic speaker which sounds like an electrostatic. A few well-heeled audiophiles have recently come into my listening room and been stunned, and gotten up to examine what appears to be an ordinary, unremarkable speaker...until you hear them. I also use Klipsch Heresy 1s, AR 2ax's (nothing does percussion instruments, including piano, like an older AR) and the favourite of many who have auditioned my systems over the years, the ESS AMT4's, which many consider the best woofer-to-tweeter match of the entire ESS Heil Air-Motion Transformer lineup. But, recently they were finally beaten in every way by the unassuming Technics SB-4s. All of the above I found to be quite the superior of such darlings as Proacs, which I have tried in my system (but apparently Proacs need tubes to truly sing). I am currently considering either Magneplanar 1.6s (to hear my Lencos in my listening room via a planar), or Vandersteen 2CEs (great with percussion, dynamics and rhythm). And a few others.

Finally, cabling. Excuse me, but cabling is a swamp I don't want to get into. I do believe and concur that they indeed make a sonic difference, but what exactly is happening? No one truly knows. So, I trust my ears and close my wallet: I use solid core for speaker cable (single-strand 24 ga.) and Petra for interconnect. Before you laugh at the last, often available for less than $10 for a six-foot pair, I have very often brought them with me into cost-no-object systems, accepted challenges against favoured $1K interconnects, and left with $10 in my pocket, minus the cable. I am quite satisfied with these, and I no longer search.

My experience with audiophiles who promise to try 24-ga. solid core in their system goes like this: they insert the cable into their system, listen for precisely 5 minutes, declare them horribly thin-sounding (interestingly exactly as they look) and without bass (in spite of my warning they take 7 hours to burn in, and again as they look). They then buy cables at $1K to $2K, burn them in for six months/1000 hours, then declare them incredible, with the caveat they require 6 months to burn in before they can be fairly judged. Which explains why they are still considered bad-to-middling.

So, there you go, my system is extremely changeable/fluid, and in addition and sadly, if I listed my various systems, many would take this as an excuse to throw away my findings. So I leave them guessing.

I do have a single semi-constant system out of all these options however I am very familiar with, in order to hear what is going on in my various experiments: either the PV-7 or PV-8 (most often the PV-8 for its superb bass, precisely where Idlers and DDs outperform belt-drives most audibly), the 100-watt SS amp (ditto bass), and the Technics SB-4s (surprising bass from these 3-way stand-mounters). Using the RS-A1/Denon DL-103E combo, I test each record player with the identical set-up to be fair and minimize variables. And then, of course, once I am certain and infused by the fire of discovery, it goes out to some state-of-the-art system to be tested full-range/current (someone always curious).
Hi Johnnantais, Thanks for taking the time to answer so completly. Your systems "sound" great and interesting. I have more than a few vintage pieces in my system also.

And the fact that you get to test your ideas on various systems must be quite helpful to you.

Thanks,

Bob
Hi all, a couple of questions, first, where is there a good supplier of a Denon 103E cartridge, and what is the cost?

also, how do you get the Lenco tonearm mounting collar off? I looked under the turntable and there is a large nut, but I cant seem to turn it.

Thanks, Michael
You're welcome Bob. I also rely on reports from afar: for instance if you look under my system, there is the report of the fellow who owned a Platine Verdier/Schroeder tonearm/Koetsu Urushi combo, and who reported it's easy defeat by one of my replinthed Direct Coupled Garrard 301s (oil bearing) matched with a Dynavector DV-507 MKII/Denon DL-103 combo. Such reports as these are very common too. As I continue to underline, if such a report comes from the very owner of said megabuck belt-drive (or indeed the distributor of others), then it is reliable, since he/she has no reason to support the cheaper 'table.

Hi Michael, the answer to the elliptical-tipped Denon is phonophono in Berlin, they are the only ones to offer a simple substitution of the original conical diamond with an elliptical one, without touching the cantilever. They reported this was much better than the Denon DL-103R, which they also sold. But, they are funny, as they will not simply take a new DL-103 and re-tip it: you have to use your DL-103 (or DL-103R) first, and THEN send it to them for re-tipping. As to the collar, it just takes elbow grease and the appropriate set of pliers. It'll come off. You may have to remove or simply bend some of the rest of the tonearm hardware in order to get a sufficient grip.

And over in my system, the Oracle/Benz continues to burn in (becoming more and more detailed and controlled with time, sounding more Karat-like in this sense, but with deep bass), and the re-wired Rega RB-300 continues to show its mettle by both handling the Benz and showing this progression, with precision, clarity, and musicality.

I've also finally picked up a Gates idler-wheel-drive, super-heavy-duty, as if I didn't already have sufficient of these projects!!
Hi all, the other night I once again heard vinyl sounding like Master Tape, on a vintage system which still sounds better than any other I've heard, backing up those Fab Electro-Voice speakers (simply the best I've ever heard, period, The End) now residing in an overstuffed listening room.

By Master Tape I don't mean simple detail (though that was there) or imaging and so on (which was all there), but the utter absence of the sound of a mechanical system: no stylus dragging on vinyl, no sound of any sort of friction, no intrusion of any sort, which only becomes audible when it has disappeared (and then your ears perk up and you say WHAT?!?). Mounted on the traditional Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced Lenco was a rewired Rega, and mounted on THAT was the latest-edition Dynavector 20X-H (which was, in audiophile terms, slaughtered by my Dynavector Karat), with new Micro-ridge diamond. I sat there stunned as I recognized that sound: the sound I heard back on Cyprus when the Ultra-Giant Lenco (100 pounds) duked it out with the EMT 930 and won. I remember being struck there when I first that sound (of Master Tape...or better, as the owners of the EMT, who made master tapes of various ensembles playing in various spaces, said) coming from the EMT/RS-A1/Shure V15V, a then from the Lenco (but with even superior fluidity and power and resolution than the EMT). The Shure as well had a Micro-ridge diamond, and I'm now wondering if this utter lack of a mechanical sound (of friction or "working") is due not only to the Lenco - which continues to be THE most fluid-sounding, and yet powerful, turntable I've ever heard - but also to the Micro-ridge cartridge? Now I don't think I've got any Micro-ridge cartridges (maybe the Karat Ruby), but I will definitely be looking into this new wrinkle. I've heard the E-V system several times, and yet not until I mounted the Dynavector to the Lenco did I hear that particular Master-Tape-like quality, to the extent that it HIT me.

The rest of the components were my own CJ PV-7 (itself very fluid, silky and musical, and with the E-Vs a Master of Bass) and the humble ASL Wave 20 monoblocks. Doesn't sound like much, but thanks to those E-Vs (and the sound-room which eliminates their brightness), simply the best I've ever heard, and that by FAR. The E-Vs retrieve detail from the electronics out of all proportion to what one would normally expect from those same electronics. God only knows what would happen if high-resolution electronics were hooked up to those E-Vs. Might not be a good idea. I still don't know exactly which particular E-Vs these are, except that they belong to the era of the famed Patricians (which had 30" woofers, the largest ever made!!!).

In building this particular Lenco, I took the normal care in putting it all together/modding it/adjusting it, and noticed as well, as always, that until everything was put together just so - in addition to the usual motor and main bearing rebuilding/balancing/etc. - and by this I mean the Direct Coupling screws tightened just so, the bolts tightened just so, and so on, the Full Lenco Magic was there, but not in full strength. Once it was dialed-in, it was OBVIOUS....sounding spectacularly Lenco-like (and those who have heard modded Lencos know what I mean), with its full measure of limitless power with an utterly fluid sound...like the Amazon in Full Flood. But once that Micro-ridge cartridge was set up and heard in that E-V system....Master Tape. So, don't be sloppy or cavalier!!

Anyway, having pursued the Kundalini Effect (timing SO potent it raises the hairs on the body and causes **frissons**...which I still pursue) which so far only a good idler-wheel drive can deliver, I will now pursue this Master-Tape-like sound (also idler-wheel-related, Analog speed stability which depends on torque-aided inertia, in my experience so far), and see if indeed it does come down, at least partly, to the Micro-Ridge cartridge. But also, in both cases, spectacularly good speakers were being used: in the one case the E-Vs, and in the other Quad ESL-57s. Oh, and tubes too in both cases.

Oh, and on the budget front, I've written it before and I'll write it again: the tonearm cable (5-pin DIN type) which comes with the vintage Audio Technica tonearms (which usually run about $200) is SO good it's worth it to buy one of these tonearms and ignore it and use the cable, or keep the cable and sell on the A-T. I've compared it to several pricey tonearm cables on such luminaries as Graham tonearms (vs a Hovland cable) and such-like, and I just tested it on my newly-acquired SME V, which came with the Van den Hul M. C. D501 Hybrid Halogen-free cable which comes standard with SME Vs and...the A-T slaughters it. More detail, more bass, more depth (MUCH more), better and more extended highs, better timing (music just ROCKS more with this cable) and so on. So, if you already have an Audio Technica tonearm with the silvery/gold/metallic sheath, then hang on to it! The rest of you, look for A-T tonearms with the original cable, if you have a 5-pin DIN connector.

More Lenco Adventures on the horizon, as well as other idlers, DDs, and so on (maybe even a belt-drive!!). Have fun all!!