1. Home
  2. analog
  3. 198521-196045

Where do classical vinyl records get their rumble from?

Recently converted back to vinyl from silver disks, I am struck by how much rumble seems to be inherent in the new and used vinyl I am buying.

A case in point, is a recent Deutsche Grammophon (DG) recording (487 7484) of Mahler’s Second Symphony made at a live performance at the Sydney Opera House (I was there).  The first set I bought was amongst the dirtiest pressings I have ever had, but the second set was much improved.  However, there is a persistent rumble whether played on my Holbo Mk2 air bearing system or my venerable Garrard 301 (new bearing from Classic Turntable Company).

Mahler typically has huge dynamic range, from muted off-stage performers to hundreds of musicians going hell-for-leather.

The rumble could be partly caused by the venue’s air conditioning system, but I hear similar background on a Telarc recording (Stereo 10051) of Saint Saens Organ Symphony made in Philadelphia.  Telarc even arranged to have local roads shut down for the recording sessions.

Similar efforts were made by DG when recording the organ at Notre Dame in Paris, where recording was done late at night to reduce traffic noise.  My copy includes Dolby Atmos on Pure-Audio Bly-ray (DG 486 1466).

I was beginning to think the rumble was inherent in my tables, but then I played a German Direct Metal Mastered (DMM) set from In-Akustik for Clearaudio’s 40th anniversary (INAK 78051 2LP).  It includes some Telarc tracks.  This set has the quietest background I’ve never heard.  There is virtually no rumble, exonerating my tables.

So apart from the recoding venue’s air conditioning and traffic noise, why do so many classical records seem to have built-in rumble?  Could it be from the mastering lathe?

I am really only thinking about classical recordings where the dynamic range approximates the signal to noise ratio of vinyl, meaning that very low-level signals are musically important, while simultaneously bumping against the noise floor.

richardbrand
billstevenson
1,165 posts
 

Richard,

Arm/cartridge resonance has nothing at all to do with how loudly you play your music.  In fact resonance can be measured in total silence.  It is all about how the combination reacts when stimulated by the test band, which for AnalogMagik has a frequency range of 7.5-35 Hz.  So the cantilever is vibrating, which in turn sets the arm in motion.  The target is for the arm to vibrate in a range between 8-12 Hz.  Yours is 6 Hz, which is causing something to vibrate sympathetically, probably a simple multiple of that value.  By placing a weight on the head shell and rebalancing the tonearm, you effectively increased the mass of the cartridge/arm assemblage.  I know that is counter-intuitive, but it changed your resonant frequency and got you our of that situation.  End result: it sounds a little cleaner.  

richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,363 posts
 

@tablejockey 

can a reflex style clamp be used on the Holbo platter?

Good to see you are still looking at buying a Holbo!  

I have never tried a reflex clamp but had a quick look at a SOTA Reflex LP Clamp. It would seem to fit, provided two conditions are met

  1. The Delrin spindle must resist being pulled out of the platter
  2. There must be sufficient spindle length protruding for the clamp to grip

The protrusion depends on whether you use a mat, and if so what its thickness is.

Funnily enough, I don’t know much about the internals of the Holbo even though I have one.

I probably know more about Wilson Benesch because they publish so many whitepapers and are backed by government grants and university research.  No doubt they apply for patents around the world - which is not a copy-protection mechanism affordable to most entrepreneurs.  Even patents probably don’t stop counterfeits from Asia! 

I only have one wish for a Holbo improvement, and it is a slightly longer spindle

@hb22  over to you!

lewm
14,650 posts
 

I think the whole 6Hz resonance thing is a red herring.  But I am glad the problem is at least ameliorated if not solved. If the Tacet LP cannot make the SME resonate at all, like I said before, there is something fishy about it OR the resonance is below 5Hz (doubtful because it would cause havoc) or above 15Hz. Because all tonearms with all cartridges must resonate at some frequency.

hb22's avatar
hb22
21 posts
 

The problem that arises with the horizontal resonant frequency is at 0.5hz. The Holbo in combination with the DS cartridge is at 6hz, so far from the problem. Do not mix the horizontal and vertical resonant frequencies. Also, the tangential tonearm airbearing is very different from the regular pivot tonearm, where the common resonant frequency can be very problematic.

And once again: the rumble has already been recorded on vinyl, there are such copies, and there are not a few of them.

 

richardbrand's avatar
richardbrand OP
1,363 posts
 

@lewm 

I think the whole 6Hz resonance thing is a red herring

Thanks, agreed if you are looking for tonearm / cartridge resonance!  I realised last night that it is almost certainly caused by sub-plinth resonance instead.  enlightened Now I know that, if I were at home, I could just play the Tacet record louder and find out where the arm resonances are. The only instrument I am using with this record is my ear.

I am assuming the Tacet record relies on acoustic feedback to excite the resonance, which has to be big enough to cause audible mis-tracking?  But @billstevenson has caused me to query this assumption?

I am glad the problem is at least ameliorated

The only thing that has changed so far, is that I think that adding downforce makes one record sound slightly cleaner (the music, not the noise) but I doubt if I could pick it in an A/B comparison. Long term, I don't want to keep running an expensive cartridge at 150% of its recommended tracking force.

My original question about varying rumble-like noises from some classical records is still open laugh

More to discover