bits is bits

@clustrocasual is conflating all sorts of digital data transmissions in his otherwise interesting post. 

TCP over Ethernet differs from other mediums / protocols such as USB, I2S, etc. in that - being clock-less - it is naturally impervious to jitter.

As a result, the music file that left Qobuz servers 5,000 miles away is the same music file that arrives at your streamer’s network interface. It may have undergone all kinds of processing at Qobuz; It will definitely undergo all kinds of processing in your streamer, thanks to Roon and what not; but it will suffer no more damage between your modem and your streamer than it suffered between Romania (or wherever) and your modem, which is to say none.

Do you mind if I copy this paragraph and repost it the next time some networking "expert" states all "bit-perfect" check-summed digital sounds the same?

@mclinnguy don’t be lazy! And try to keep an open mind :)

@devinplombier so the streamer receives 100% identical information, from either a music server 10 inches away or from Romania. Nobody disputes that, right? And then it's sent / streamed to the DAC. It is at that point that jitter is introduced? When we need a 20,0000 dollar streamer to get rid of the little clock devil?

As a result, the music file that left Qobuz servers 5,000 miles away is the same music file that arrives at your streamer’s network interface

I’m just pointing out a variety of explanations for why files can sound different - not including end user hardware and real world losses.

I had a friend at Netflix in the early 2010s developing their pipeline, and he told me about ways they would bounce streams around different countries in Micronesia to experiment discreetly with customers without your local IP’s knowing, so they can subdivide what people within a given are receive. (Don’t remember the whole story).

So in conclusion, there are many opportunities to how the streamers can sound different and they are intensely competitive with each other, and we may never know the full details. There are people whose job it is to alter, throttle, and reroute streams all over the world so everyone is frictionless - with trillion dollar markets caps and billions of users, its in no way "a simple direct stream for everyone". Delivering non-stop content is more important to their shareholders than retaining fidelity to the original - one quarter of laggy streams can result in a $50billion market cap haircut if users cancel, so expect shenanigans and expect things constantly changing. 

I recommend always support your artists by purchasing their digital masters and playing them locally :)

@clustrocasual you’re absolutely right.

My comment was that where "bits is bits" is concerned it pays to be extremely specific lest biased skeptics mistake your statement for a universal debunking of "bits is bits", even if that was not your intent, and start cheering like it was announcing the second coming.

With digital audio as with most things in life, the entire community benefits when individuals educate themselves and develop and articulate thoughtful, fact-based opinions instead of endlessly parroting facile dogma.

so the streamer receives 100% identical information, from either a music server 10 inches away or from Romania. Nobody disputes that, right?

@parkergetdean 

I definitely wouldn’t say "nobody"; just look at some of the posts in this and other threads.

And then it’s sent / streamed to the DAC. It is at that point that jitter is introduced? When we need a 20,0000 dollar streamer to get rid of the little clock devil?

Bits are processed (and therefore sonically modified) in your streamer by your music player software, and then handed over to your DAC over either USB or some antediluvian protocol like S/PDIF. There, and only there, start potential clocking issues, as well as the raging debate hanging over them

No, a $20,000 streamer is not required, but chances are it will mitigate clocking and galvanic isolation and other such issues better than a $299 one.

@devinplombier 

out of curiosity (and there may be some poor assumptions)

both the streamer and the CD transport got the data, the file with the bits for the music. They both send it to the DAC- doing the same exact job? Why does the streamer have to do it at much higher costs than the CD transport (my assumption/quick review that streamers cost much more)