New Turntable


Hi All,

I’m considering a new turntable for a system based around Classe Delta separates and Focal Utopia speakers. I’ve narrowed my choices down to a few models:

  • Luxman P151 MK II Centennial Edition
  • Luxman P191A
  • Clearaudio Ovation or Innovation
  • Rega P10

And looking for any feedback folks have on sound, value, ease of use, etc. I need to decide if I want to try to snag an individual centennial edition from Luxman while I can or get the entire set. I don’t have a ton of turntable experience, so as fuss-free of an experience as possible is desired. When I spoke to dealers they considered these options pretty low-maintenance and I should not be concerned there, though they did mention that Rega is about as set it and forget it as can be. I will need a dust cover and as far as I can tell all of these have that option available.

One thing that concerns me about Clearaudio is the age of the models and the almost 50% increase in price of the product lifetime of the Ovation. If it was still around 8K it would be an obvious front-runner for me. 

Please don’t respond with other brands. There is an overwhelming amount of choice out there and I’ve worked pretty hard to get to a short list already. An example I had, but removed was Goldnote Mediterraneo as it would be not regularly demoed and is available special order only.

 

tank_pd

All of the TTs you are considering would give excellent sonic results.  I recommend you consider them from an ergonomic standpoint.  They are very different one from another.  You need to play some records on each one to get a feel for how they work, how they FEEL to you.  Whatever TT you select should be one that you are comfortable using.  Your mission is to decide which one you like to use the best.  Don’t worry about making a bad choice, there are no bad choices in this group.  This is something only you can do.  No one else is you and none of us can help you with this most important of all ergonomic preference.

Currently I am at 30,000 ft over Wisconsin. I will write back when I get home. 
 

John

Okay, here we go.  I am currently running my Nantais with a Graham Phantom and a Dynavector XX-3 cartridge.  What it replaced was a Oracle Premiere upgraded to a MK-V with Koetsu goldline cartridge.  Between Nantais and my Oracle--night and day difference.  It was as great a step up as when I went from my consumer level Denon to the Oracle.

There was nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing that wasn't improved.  Clarity, stereo separation, sound floor dropped like a rock.  Wow and flutter nearly dissappeard (CD like, no joke).

What I've heard before.

I own a Clearaudio.  Haven't been impressed.  A grandchild  broke the needle, replaced it with a Denon cartridge, sounded a lot better.  Heard a few of the high end.

I buy stuff from Paragon in Ann Arbor.  Heard the Linn Sondeck (sorry, not sure what cartridge).  Way inferier to the Nantais turntable at 4x price.

Heard the Rockport.  Nantais still better.  Sometimes I think that one is for the very weathy to impress their friends.

Very familiar with the older Basis tables.  Back in the '90's, I wanted a Basis vacuum with a Graham and a Koetsu.  Couldn't afford it.

Listened many, many turntables over the years.  VPI's, the consumer stuff, etc.

Now, I could get into the details, but here is a much better source for information: https://www.high-endaudio.com/RECENT.html

Arthur is the best, most objective reviewer I've seen in this hobby.  He has a reviewing process that reminds me of a Deming process (The Toyota Way was actually started by Deming).  He also changes his mind and will admit that he is wrong.

To this day, I have never been able to prove Arthur wrong.  He has a lot of gold on his obsolete-looking, hard to navigate website.

Now for me, I've always been around musicians.  Wasn't a bad one when I was younger, but some of my friends and relatives are internationally known musicians.

I also have my wife--the perfect objective tester.  She can hear things most can't.  Has perfect pitch.  Enjoys listening to the stereo, but does not care about the equipment.  If it sounds better, she tells me.  If it sounds worse, she tells me.  She is also great at fine tuning the equipment.

Jean also has a lot of great ideas for tweeks and setup.  He is a valuable resource to getting your turntable up and rolling.

Now, let me flip my scientist's cap back on for a second.  jean explains his theory behind why his turntables work so well on his website.  It seems to be sound.  Earlier, I stated I've been around the music industry all my life.  Nantais' turntables reminded me of something from my past--Ampex

https://reel-reel.com/tape-recorder/ampex-mr-70/

Heard master tapes on one of those.  Best sound I've ever heard.

Nantais is close.  I think the reason for this is that they both use ideler arm technology.  Jean did for idler arm turntables what Ampex did for reel to reel.  Optimized it.  Read his explination on his website.  I think he is spot on.

Conclusion from reading this thread: most audiophiles like and will recommend what they own and listen to. So by asking the question “which turntable”, you’re really asking “what do you own”. 
There are 3 fundamentally different ways to spin a platter. Each has its strengths and weaknesses vs the other two. Maybe you ought to do some listening in advance of purchase to determine whether perhaps you will prefer one technology over the others. Then go in that direction.

lewm: 2 points

1) Stating that asking the question of which turntable automatically means "what I own" is a rather blanket statement.  If I knew something that sounded better, say the Rockport, at $100,000, was better but I just can't afford the space and price tag.  I would state that.  The Nantais tables are just plain better on all levels.  If I was going for the absolute best playback, it would be the Ampex MR-70.  Again to big and complex to keep running.  And reel to reels are just too hard to store and deal with.

Now some may tout what they bought, even if they know something better.  But I doubt that is in the majority.

2) Where you are correct is that you should try to listen for yourself.  You just have to figure out a control process to determine which is best.  Arthur's process is a big help in creating your own process.

Most stereo equipment have subtle differences between them.  Some work great in a controlled enviornment in a store, but do not work well if you do not have a dedicated music room.  My biggest mistake was buying an amp that sound great in the store.  Sounded better than my amp and preamp when tested in the store.  Brought it home.  After two weeks my wife said to get rid of that thing and go back to the old amp, which I did.

Now in the case of some things. they are an order of magnitude better.  Nantias' turntables are one of those things.  I'm not talking about subtile differences where there is give and take.  These are a whole magintude jump in performance that rivals the best studio equipment.

One of my clients is a recording engineer and had his own label many decades ago.  When I told him about my new turntable, he really didn't believe it.  Until he came over and we had a listening session.  He had to admit that this was incredible.  And he was never one to change opinions easily.