Sound quality differences in streamers

O P here. I appreciate but certainly didn’t except this many responses on a subject which has been hashed over before. Thanks. I was this close to ordering the Volumio RIVO+ plus outboard power supply but because I am initially planning on WiFi connection only I read the RIVO suffers connectivity wise. I’ve read that the Cambridge EXN100 is quite capable with great results via WiFi. Still reading, still researching, still thinking —

@devinplombier 

Very interesting topic.  And I’m sure all will be shocked that I have a different view than @kevn  does as it relates to digital v analog.  I think perhaps a more apt analogy is as follows:

1) Reading the source - in the analog realm, everything starts with accurate reading of the music as described physically in the grooves.  Speed of turntable, tonearm and cartridge setup (e.g., VTA, VTF, etc.) and the stylus itself all contribute to how accurately the grooves are read.  In the digital world, putting streamers aside for a moment, the comparable factors for a cd player involve the transport mechanism and the laser.  In both examples, this all happens before conversion to an electrical/analog signal.  Therefore accuracy is really the sole goal here.  And accuracy is obviously far easier to achieve in the digital realm (which I think supports @devinplombier ’s point).

2) Conversion to electrical/anslog - here’s where it gets interesting and more challenging, and where lots of differences emerge, both in the digital and analog realms.  For analog, the movement of the cantilever is converted to an electrical signal connected to the moving magnet or moving coil.  And then you’ve got the gain required and RIAA conversion.  Holy smokes, it’s a gd miracle!  On the digital side the “electrical signal” is created by the DAC, which is why we always talk about the DAC as operating in the analog realm.  

Ok, so what makes a streamer special or different from the CD transport?  Absolutely nothing, and that’s the point.  It’s just a different transport whose only purpose should be to read the source material accurately before it is converted to an analog signal.  Just as with turntables and cd transports, streamers can do a better or worse job of adding noise (distortion), but the objective is just accuracy.  There are no “musical” streamers.

@kckrs 

Interesting re Volumio and wifi.  While I have no direct experience of that streamer, I do have experience with 4 others using wifi in my house.  They are: iFi Zen streamer, Pro-ject S2 Ultra, Okto DAC8 with raspberry pi self-installed, and self-assembled freestanding raspberry pi .  I have had zero problems with all of those.  I would postulate that quality of your wifi is a much better indication of whether it would work well or not, and there are pretty easy diagnostics you can run to assess that.  Good luck.  

the objective is just accuracy.  There are no “musical” streamers.

@mdalton 

Allow me to play devil’s advocate 🙂

Lots of people claim to hear sound quality differences between streamers:

Some are straight-up legit - either they upgraded a budget, value-engineered streamer to a decently built one, or they exchanged a noisy switching power supply for a nice linear regulated one.

Then you have the received-dogma / "fashion victim" / confirmation-bias crowd, but we are not going to talk about them because this is a nice thread and a nice forum.

Finally, there are bona fide audiophiles who have good ears, good credentials, a solid knowledge of digital audio and an open mind, who are able to quite articulately describe sonic differences between expensive, high-end streamers.

I trust these folks. What gives?

@devinplombier 

Yep, I get it.  My streamer journey started with my first post-retirement project, which is when I built a raspberry pi.  My “bias” was that I was gonna hear a huge difference between it and my better streamers - everyone (almost) on Audiogon told me I would.  But I didn’t.  I was shocked at that outcome, so I assumed it must be my ears or my system, right?   The truth was way more complicated.  I have heard differences between streamers on certain systems, and the quality of my hearing has been pretty frequently complimented by industry professionals.  So wtf?  

There’s not one simple explanation, but it’s stitched together among several of my wordy (sorry everyone) posts on this thread.  Most importantly, if you fail to ground your listening experience in some minimal amount of technical understanding of what the moving parts are, then you are highly likely to misdiagnose the cause of what you hear.  This is a “first principle”.   So we have to understand the technology in order to accurately assess which part of the chain might account for any difference we might hear.  How can we trust someone’s diagnosis when they misunderstand which component does what?  By way of example, you do not want me assessing that sound coming from your Porsche’s engine.  Trust me!
 

Additionally, aural memory really sucks.  So you have to do some form of an A/B comparison.  (I’m not saying double blinds are necessary, btw.). And good A/B comparisons involve hard work.  I for one hate doing them, because for me it squeezes all the joy out of the hobby.   So I only do them for very specific objectives (e.g., comparing DACs, testing streamers, final choices on speakers, etc.).  But if someone makes assertions about differences in sound without a pretty serious attempt at a relatively rigorous A/B approach, their views are immediately severely discounted by me.  

In one of my earlier posts here, I gave a list of examples of threads where people were initially sure that their new streamer had made a huge difference, but when the actual specifics were unpacked the truth was obviously very different from what they claimed.  That’s about 6 examples in a total of about 10ish threads on the topic I’ve bothered to involve myself in.  And on most of the others, the OP was so dedicated to his “truth” that I just didn’t want to be attacked by the streamer jackals for questioning the dude’s experience.  Not worth it.  

In my pre-retirement career, I was very successful precisely because I brought a very high level of analytical objectivity to sometimes deeply divisive topics.  My mantra was always “do the work”, and it still is.  I don’t take shortcuts, and I try very hard not embed hidden assumptions in my views.  And that’s the approach I’ve taken as it relates to the topic of streamers.  

Long answer (again), to a simple question.  Sorry.